The Fourth Curtain podcast

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Vor zwei Jahren hinzugefügt

Inhalt bereitgestellt von Alexander Seropian & Aaron Marroquin, Alexander Seropian, and Aaron Marroquin. Alle Podcast-Inhalte, einschließlich Episoden, Grafiken und Podcast-Beschreibungen, werden direkt von Alexander Seropian & Aaron Marroquin, Alexander Seropian, and Aaron Marroquin oder seinem Podcast-Plattformpartner hochgeladen und bereitgestellt. Wenn Sie glauben, dass jemand Ihr urheberrechtlich geschütztes Werk ohne Ihre Erlaubnis nutzt, können Sie dem hier beschriebenen Verfahren folgen https://de.player.fm/legal.

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Encore: Will Poulter, Dave Beran, and The Bear 52:22

vor 6 Tagen52:22

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Season 3 of the smash hit FX/Hulu show “The Bear” roared to life just days ago, but Will Poulter (the actor who plays fan-favorite Luca) and 2014 F&W Best New Chef Dave Beran had been prepping for weeks. Poulter — like his co-star Jeremy Allen White — staged with Beran at his Santa Monica restaurant Pasjoli to learn how to accurately portray a professional chef onscreen. The lessons went so well, Beran says he’d hire Poulter as a cook — even despite a messy mishap with a pastry bag. The two dished all about getting kitchen culture right on and offscreen, what it takes to be at the top of your craft, and the pure magic of a great restaurant service. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices…

The Fourth Curtain explicit

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A GUIDED TOUR OF VIDEOGAME MAKERY! Hosts Alex Seropian (founder Bungie, Wideload, Industrial Toys) and Aaron Marroquin (Art Director, Game Designer, part time magician) take you on a tour of the minds that create our favorite video games. We may also wander around in our own heads too. We aim to inspire, educate and entertain you about the games you love, the people that make them and hey, if you're not a gamer we know you know one. This will help you connect with them too.

90 Episoden

#Video Games #Lifestyle #Alexander Seropian & Aaron Marroquin #Aaron Marroquin #Alexander Seropian #Videogame #Culture #Creativity #Games #Interviews #Esports #FPS #RPG #Halo #Bungie

The Fourth Curtain explicit

updated vor 5 Tagen

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90 Episoden

#Video Games #Lifestyle #Alexander Seropian & Aaron Marroquin #Aaron Marroquin #Alexander Seropian #Videogame #Culture #Creativity #Games #Interviews #Esports #FPS #RPG #Halo #Bungie

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The Fourth Curtain

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Hogwarts Legacy's John Blackburn is Cool in the Arcade 1:09:19

vor 5 Tagen1:09:19

1:09:19

Our guest John Blackburn is a founder and CEO of Avalanche Software, makers of hundreds of games for dozens of platforms, such as Hogwarts Legacy and Disney Infinity . He has tales of when games paid royalties and having to take a chance. We discuss how to talk to execs and being true but not canon - this week! Episode Highlights [00:00:00] Mortal Kombat Funded Avalanche’s Origins John Blackburn reveals how Avalanche Studios was launched thanks to Mortal Kombat Trilogy royalties—literally bankrolling the studio's earliest days. [00:13:00] Salt Lake City: An Underrated Game Dev Hotspot John shares the rich game development legacy of Salt Lake City, from the roots of Sculptured Software and Access Software to Avalanche and beyond. [00:21:00] Working on Mortal Kombat at Sculptured Software John discusses his first big project as a junior programmer, working on Mortal Kombat for Super Nintendo—with access to an arcade machine right outside his office. [00:25:00] The Crazy Coincidences Behind Avalanche’s Founding Learn how a failed job offer, a chance bar conversation, and a loophole in rights ownership led to Avalanche’s first contract with Midway. [00:31:00] Mortal Kombat Trilogy: The Royalty Deal That Changed Everything Blackburn explains how the CD-based release of Mortal Kombat Trilogy and a classics reprint led to a royalty windfall that solidified the studio’s future. [00:40:00] Disney Acquires Avalanche for Platforming Expertise John recounts how Avalanche’s work on licensed platformers like Tack and the Power of Juju led to Disney acquiring the studio after seeing early progress on Chicken Little . [00:54:00] How Disney Infinity Was Born from Toy Story 3’s Toy Box Mode Infinity started as a toy-themed platform game before pivoting into the toys-to-life genre after the success of Skylanders—with the blessing of Bob Iger. [01:00:00] The Secret Behind Hogwarts Legacy: Portkey Games & Creative Freedom Blackburn shares how Portkey Games enabled Avalanche to develop an original story set in the Wizarding World—without needing to retell the Harry Potter books. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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What Have You Got to Lose with Blizzard's Michael Morhaime 1:13:02

vor 12 Tagen1:13:02

1:13:02

Our guest Michael Morhaime was President and CEO of Blizzard during its glory years, shipping Warcraft , Starcraft , World of Warcraft , Diablo and more! Now Founder and CEO Dreamhaven he's won an Emmy and is in the AIAS Hall of Fame. We discuss red tape, how many billion dollar franchises you need on your resume and more - this week! [00:01:00] Blizzard’s High Standards: Canceling Half Their Games Mike reveals that Blizzard canceled nearly half of its projects to maintain quality, highlighting their ruthless pursuit of excellence—a strategy echoed by studios like Supercell. [00:10:00] Founding DreamHaven: A Haven for Creative Freedom Mike discusses how DreamHaven was built on the values that made Blizzard great: empowering internal studios, creative autonomy, and attracting AAA talent. [00:14:00] Why “DreamHaven”? The Story Behind the Studio’s Name Mike shares the inspiration behind DreamHaven’s name, emphasizing its vision as a safe space for innovation and creators. [00:25:00] Early Days at Blizzard: From Electrical Engineer to Game Developer Mike recounts how he transitioned from an EE background to co-founding Blizzard, even bringing the pitch to his dad for approval. [00:32:00] First Console and Coding: The Bally Professional Arcade A nostalgic dive into Mike’s first experience with programming via a BASIC cartridge console—a formative moment in his tech journey. [00:44:00] Navigating Acquisitions: How Blizzard Stayed True to Itself Mike outlines Blizzard’s acquisition history (Davidson, Sierra, Vivendi, Activision) and how the studio maintained independence through it all. [00:50:00] Blizzard’s Secret to Long-Term Success: Prioritizing Players Mike explains how being founder-led and focused on long-term value creation helped Blizzard consistently ship polished, player-first games. [00:58:00] DreamHaven’s Future Vision: Platform Strategy & First Games Mike talks about shipping on Steam, using Unreal/Unity for the first time, and the philosophy behind DreamHaven’s early development choices. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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The Sims' Bing Gordon is Specifically Right 1:15:48

vor 19 Tagen1:15:48

1:15:48

Our guest Bing Gordon has had a long successful run in videogames and tech. From marketing lead to Chief Creative Officer at EA, he helped shaped NASCAR, The Sims and other huge titles. We discuss pitching, two beer strategies and Speilberg's smoke test - this week! Episode Highlights [00:04:00] How Bing Gordon Helped Launch Electronic Arts Bing shares the story of co-founding EA when it was a scrappy startup in 1983, including raising $2 million in funding and being the company’s one-person marketing department. [00:07:00] Reading the Room: How Bing Predicted Game Success Bing explains how walking into a studio could tell him whether a game would ship on time and be successful—drawing parallels to retail psychology and intuition. [00:10:00] Meeting Trip Hawkins and Dreaming of Virtual Worlds Bing recounts meeting Trip Hawkins at Stanford and discussing early ideas about creating a “virtual Disneyland,” which inspired their future at EA. 00:17:00] Why Bing Fell in Love with Games He discusses his childhood fascination with puzzles, invented games, and the dream of living multiple lives through games, likening them to the metaverse. [00:18:00] Steven Spielberg on Games vs. Movies Bing recalls Spielberg’s take on video games as a “lean-in” medium compared to passive film watching, and how body language helped refine cinematic pacing. [00:23:00] Designing the NASCAR Draft Meter to Win Over Critics Bing talks about a near failure in NASCAR Racing’s development and how adding a visual “draft meter” salvaged the game’s perception and success. [00:51:00] What Makes a Great Founder? Bing shares his top insight into investing: founders who give you an insight you've never heard before are often the most successful. [00:55:00] The Risk of Being 'Generally Right, Specifically Wrong' He explains how being close to a great idea, but missing key details, can result in failure—coining the phrase “generally right, specifically wrong.” Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Portal's Kim Swift's Cake is Not a Lie 1:15:49

vor 26 Tagen1:15:49

1:15:49

Our guest Kim Swift turned a student demo into the mega-hit Portal . Previously the Head of Creative for Xbox Games Publishing, she also did level design on Left 4 Dead and was Design Director for Star Wars: Battlefront II . We discuss how to pitch, owning IP on Mars and whether or not the cake is a lie - this week! Episode Highlights [00:00:21] Kim Swift’s Game Design Origin Story Kim talks about how she got into game development by modding games like Doom and Quake , which eventually led to her joining Valve right out of college. [00:04:37] The Birth of Portal: From Student Project to Valve Kim explains how her DigiPen student project Narbacular Drop caught Valve’s attention and led to the creation of Portal . [00:10:50] Working With Gabe Newell and Valve’s Culture Kim describes Valve’s flat hierarchy, creative freedom, and how working with Gabe Newell shaped her career. [00:14:08] Creative Constraints in Game Design She shares how limits and constraints actually helped drive innovation in Portal’s level design. [00:20:22] The Magic of Short Games: Why Portal Was Just Right Kim reflects on why Portal was intentionally short and how the team prioritized player experience over game length. [00:25:46] From Valve to Big Tech: Her Leap Into Cloud Gaming She discusses her transition from traditional studios to roles at Amazon and Xbox, focusing on innovation in cloud gaming. [00:33:10] Leadership Advice: Trust Your Gut and Advocate for Yourself Kim offers advice for aspiring leaders in tech: trust your instincts, advocate for your ideas, and know your worth. [00:42:15] Kim’s Hopes for the Future of Games She envisions a future where games are more inclusive, emotionally resonant, and push the boundaries of storytelling. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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The Blinding Flame of Red Dead's Christian Cantamessa 1:21:15

vor 5 weeks1:21:15

1:21:15

Our guest Christian Cantamessa began in point and click adventures before becoming lead designer and writer for Red Dead Redemption . Now CEO of Day 4 Night Studios Inc., he is also the writer and director of the film, Air . We discuss concern about GTA III , embracing the game and telling stories in games - this week! [00:00:00] – From Donald Duck to GTA III: Career Whiplash Christian recalls the surreal leap from working on a Donald Duck GBA game to contributing to Grand Theft Auto III at Rockstar Games. [00:07:00] – Founding Day for Night Studios and Teaching at USC Christian shares updates on founding Day for Night Studios , collaborating with legendary composer Grant Kirkhope, and teaching screenwriting at USC. [00:15:00] – How Growing Up in Italy Shaped His Game Development Dreams Christian discusses his early life in Italy, making camcorder movies, discovering Monkey Island , and finding a love for storytelling through games. [00:27:00] – Early Struggles: Typing Code from Magazines and Hand-Me-Down Computers He shares the challenges of learning basic programming on a Commodore 16 and ZX Spectrum without formal training or abundant resources. [00:46:00] – Breaking Into Rockstar: Cold Email to Working on GTA III Christian tells the story of how a spontaneous email to DMA Design led to his move to Scotland to help finish GTA III —despite having no prior open-world experience. [00:53:00] – Designing Emergent Gameplay for GTA III He explains how Rockstar embraced unintended player behavior, turning it into a core design philosophy that shaped GTA III ’s legendary sandbox style. [00:56:00] – Leading Design on Manhunt and Red Dead Redemption After GTA III, Christian became the lead designer of Manhunt and helped shape the narrative and world-building of Red Dead Redemption . [01:00:00] – The Price of Creative Passion: Burnout and Sacrifice Christian reflects on the emotional and personal cost of spending five intense years building Red Dead Redemption , and whether true greatness requires full commitment. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Command and Conquer's Louis Castle's Triple Threat 1:08:39

vor 6 weeks1:08:39

1:08:39

Our guest Louis Castle helped invent real-time strategy games with Command and Conquer and has a BAFTA for Boom Blox . Now leading Childlike Wonder Games, we discuss casino ethics, switching to real-time and building toys - this week! Top 8 Highlights [00:00:00] – Lifelong Learning: The Key to Game Design Success Louis Castle opens the episode by emphasizing the importance of constant learning as a game designer, citing curiosity and adaptability as essential traits. [00:06:00] – Founding Westwood Studios & Creating the RTS Genre Louis reflects on co-founding Westwood Studios, the groundbreaking work on Command & Conquer , and helping define the real-time strategy genre. [00:10:00] – Game Design vs. Casino Game Ethics He explains how game design in the casino industry is more ethically regulated than video games, raising concerns about manipulation in mainstream game design. [00:17:00] – A True Multidisciplinary Game Maker Louis shares how he started as both an artist and programmer, contributing art, code, and design to early Westwood projects. [00:27:00] – Westwood’s Mission: Make Complex Games Accessible From Eye of the Beholder to Dune II , Louis discusses how Westwood focused on turning deep mechanics into real-time, accessible gameplay. [00:41:00] – Technical Wizardry: Building Custom Operating Systems Louis describes how he built custom OS-level tools and game engines to push hardware limits, including 60 FPS variable frame rate systems in the ‘80s. [00:44:00] – Childlike Wonder Games: His New Studio & GenAI Vision He announces his new studio, Childlike Wonder Games , and its mission to create strategy games that let players use generative AI to customize gameplay. [00:56:00] – The Wild Ride: Selling Westwood 4 Times Before EA Louis recounts how Westwood was acquired four times—eventually landing at EA—and how he handled all the financial and legal negotiations himself. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Tencent's Amir Satvat Flexes the Data Muscle for Good 1:14:20

vor 7 weeks1:14:20

1:14:20

Our guest Amir Satvat wants to get you a job in games. A business development executive at Tencent, he won the Game Changer award for the incredible community he built which has helped over 3k gamedevs find their next role with mentorship, mock interviews and more. We discuss "the troubles" and hopes for the future - this week! You can find Amir's website and community here: https://amirsatvat.com/ [00:00:00] The 17-Year Grind: Amir shares how it took nearly two decades—and hundreds of rejections—before landing his first job in games at age 38. [00:14:00] The Job Engine Behind 3,300 Careers: Amir’s community has helped thousands land jobs in games. From mock interviews to portfolio reviews—this is how it all works. [00:22:00] 2,300 Games and One Epic Spreadsheet: Amir has played over 2,300 games, tracking his thoughts on each one in a personal mega-spreadsheet since childhood. [00:26:00] Inside Four Rooms of Game Collectibles: Amir owns every Amiibo, rare WOW minis, and a glowing Wind Waker statue—all spread across four dedicated rooms. [00:27:00] Why the Game Industry is Shrinking (for Now): Layoffs, oversupply, and rising dev costs—Amir breaks down the real reasons behind the industry's contraction. [00:34:00] The Great Talent Shift to Asia: Data shows jobs migrating away from California and toward Asia and Europe—Amir explains why it’s happening and what it means. [00:42:00] Hope, Help, and Hugging at GDC: Amir reflects on the emotional impact of his work—stories of saved homes, career comebacks, and life-changing support. [01:08:00] Has Gaming Growth Peaked? The crew unpacks whether the golden age of game industry expansion is slowing—and what’s next for developers and players alike. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Outer Wilds' Alex Beachum's Cool Weird Emotional Prototypes 1:12:11

vor 8 weeks1:12:11

1:12:11

Our guest Alex Beachum turned his thesis project into the mind-bending smash Outer Wilds . Inspired by greats such as Zelda and Antichamber , it blazed new ground by having a nonviolent (though definitely mortal) player. We discuss emotional prototypes, four distinct mysteries and the IGF - this week! Highlights [00:00:30] Emotional Prototyping: Designing with Feeling Alex Beachum discusses the idea of building an emotional prototype for a game, capturing the vibe before mechanics—like roasting marshmallows as the sun explodes. This became the emotional core of Outer Wilds . [00:17:30] The Origin of the Supernova Mechanic: The moment that inspired the iconic supernova loop in Outer Wilds —watching planets explode in slow motion—originated as a student prototype focused on ambiance and inevitability. [00:09:00] Building a Space Game Without Combat: Alex wanted to make a space exploration game without combat, inspired by Apollo 13 and 2001: A Space Odyssey . The idea was pure exploration—“not to conquer, just to understand.” [00:10:30] How ‘ Outer Wilds ’ Was Almost a Roguelike Originally envisioned as a roguelike with randomized elements, Outer Wilds shifted to a fixed solar system with a time loop to better serve its story and design goals. [00:08:00] Zelda , Myst , and the Indie Inspirations Behind Outer Wilds : Beachum references Zelda , Myst , and Antichamber as key influences. The design philosophy emphasized knowledge as power, like discovering rules you could’ve used all along. [00:53:00] The Ship Log: Making Mystery Manageable: Alex explains the design of the ship log, which breaks the story into four “curiosity webs” so players can uncover the mystery in any order. A masterclass in open-world narrative structure. [00:39:00] From Stop Motion to Indie Stardom: Alex recounts how his childhood love of stop-motion and magic tricks evolved into a passion for visual storytelling and game design, eventually leading to Outer Wilds . [00:42:30] Working with Family: Sibling Storytelling: Alex collaborated with his sister Kelsey Beachum, the writer of Outer Wilds , on the narrative. Their sibling dynamic added cohesion to the game’s emotional and story depth. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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The Maestro of Modding Sandi Montaño 57:53

vor 9 weeks57:53

57:53

In this inspiring episode of The Fourth Curtain , we sit down with Sandi Montaño , a self-taught modding phenom who went from stay-at-home dad to one of the most downloaded indie creators in the gaming world. With over 31 million downloads of his content for games like ARK: Survival Ascended and Hogwarts Legacy , Sandi proves you don’t need a degree—or even a formal background in game development—to make a major impact. If you’re a game developer, modder, or creative looking to break into the industry—this is a must-listen. What started as a project to entertain his daughter has turned into a successful business. We discuss Blender, community needs and geometric growth this week! [00:00:40] Modding During Nap Time Sandi shares how he taught himself game modding using textbooks during his daughter’s daily naps—no school, no YouTube, just pure grit. [00:02:15] 31 Million Downloads & Counting Alex and Aaron react to the jaw-dropping number of downloads Sandi has achieved—and how it all started as a creative project with his daughter. [00:10:00] How a Simple Structure Became a Business Sandi explains how he began creating ARK mods specifically for his daughter, which unexpectedly turned into a full-time business. [00:17:45] Modding Hogwarts Legacy with SQL Sandi talks about stepping into Hogwarts Legacy modding and the unexpected challenge of learning SQL to build new features. [00:24:40] How He Tests New Ideas (The Smart Way) Sandi walks through his efficient system of prototyping floor and wall structures, using community feedback to determine what becomes a premium mod. [00:29:10] Modding for Relaxation—and Revenue Sandi reflects on how modding became both his creative outlet and a surprisingly profitable business, even allowing him to hire help. [00:35:15] Explaining Your Job as a Modder He shares how surreal it was when his barber turned out to be a fan using his mods—and the tricky task of explaining his job to others. [00:46:00] Advice for Aspiring Modders Sandi encourages anyone curious about modding to just get started—highlighting persistence, experimentation, and community feedback as key ingredients to success. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Exploding Kittens' Elan Lee Stacks the Deck 1:12:28

vor 10 weeks1:12:28

1:12:28

Our guest is Exploding Kitten's Elan Lee. Starting with animating breath for the film Titanic, he went on to create the world's first alternate reality game, The Beast, at Microsoft. Later he gamified Nine Inch Nails and voter registration and went on to launch the most successful Kickstarter ever for Exploding Kittens, redefining family game night. This episode features great stories and a world exclusive product announcement - this week! [00:06:30] From ILM to Xbox Elan shares his early work on Titanic and Star Wars , including hand-animating breath and neck seams for Jar Jar Binks—yes, really. [00:18:30] The Xbox Origin Story Elan recounts joining Microsoft during the secretive beginnings of Xbox and working with gaming legend Jordan Weisman on the launch lineup. [00:30:45] Creating the First ARG with Spielberg How AI: Artificial Intelligence inspired Elan to pioneer alternate reality games, turning storytelling into an interactive experience. [00:35:00] Nine Inch Nails and “The Game That Calls You” Partnering with Trent Reznor, Elan built an ARG that included thermochromic CD ink, cryptic websites, and secret concerts. [00:41:30] The Clothing Line That Taught U.S. History A secret-encoded T-shirt line that secretly retold the story of the American Revolution—gamified fashion meets education. [00:49:00] Why Exploding Kittens Happened After stepping away from screens, Elan turned to physical games and launched Exploding Kittens , which raised $9 million on Kickstarter. [00:54:45] Inside the Chaos of Fulfilling 700,000 Orders How Elan went from a 200-copy side project to full-scale game production, leaning on friends (and Cards Against Humanity ) to survive. [01:01:30] Teasing the New Exploding Kittens Board Game Elan reveals an exclusive about a brand-new 3D board game version of Exploding Kittens coming soon—with a mechanic that took two years to perfect. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Journey's Jenova Chen and the Art of the Positive Game 1:16:39

vor 11 weeks1:16:39

1:16:39

This week's guest is Jenova Chen, creator of Journey , Sky: Children of the Light and other games. A BAFTA winner, he has strong opinions about morality in games and the value of positivity. We discuss the unique way he starts games, GDC's value and being the opposite of GTA - this week! [00:00:00] Music as the Highest Resolution Emotional Medium Jenova Chen explains why he believes music is the most powerful emotional communication tool, comparing it to pixel art and poetry. [00:08:00] The Journey of thatgamecompany & Raising $160M Jenova shares how Thatgamecompany evolved from a student project to a studio that raised $160 million in venture capital. [00:14:00] Growing Up in Shanghai & Discovering Gaming Jenova reflects on his childhood in China, his parents' skepticism of video games, and how he discovered his passion for interactive media. [00:28:00] Pitching a Game at USC & The Origins of thatgamecompany Jenova recalls how he pitched a student game to secure funding, which eventually led to the founding of thatgamecompany. [00:32:00] Creating Games as Art & The Success of Cloud The unexpected viral success of Cloud and how it convinced Jenova that video games could be a respected artistic medium. [00:41:00] How Jenova Chen Designs Games: Starting with Emotion Jenova describes his creative process, starting with imagery and music to establish the emotional tone before designing mechanics. [00:51:00] Comedy & Romance in Games: A Missed Opportunity Jenova discusses how certain film genres—like romantic comedies—are underrepresented in gaming and how they could become successful. [00:58:00] Designing the Emotional Journey in Journey How Journey ’s climactic moment was carefully crafted by contrasting moments of struggle with a powerful sense of freedom. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

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Alex Irvine's Storytelling Secrets from Marvel Rivals and Beyond! 1:10:52

vor 12 weeks1:10:52

1:10:52

Dive into the compelling world of storytelling with acclaimed author Alex Irvine, known for his immersive contributions to Marvel games, graphic novels, and groundbreaking Alternate Reality Games (ARGs) like I Love Bees . In this episode, Alex shares his insights on creativity, the delicate balance between talent, persistence, and luck, and the intricate art of narrative design across various media formats. From discussing the unique challenges of writing for expansive universes like Marvel's multiverse to recalling his first forays into writing, Alex reveals the true secret ingredient to success. Packed with engaging anecdotes and wisdom, this conversation will captivate aspiring creators, gamers, and narrative enthusiasts alike. Episode Highlights: [00:00] Alex Irvine shares essential advice on becoming a successful writer: "Talent, persistence, luck—pick two." [09:00] Discussing how storytelling integrates with gameplay mechanics, using Marvel Rivals as a case study. [13:00] Behind-the-scenes insight into early Marvel game universe-building attempts, and how ambitious projects like a Marvel gaming universe unfold. [14:00] Crafting "time-stream entanglement" as a narrative device for multiverse stories in Marvel Rivals. [22:00] Childhood inspiration from playing Dungeons & Dragons, storytelling roots, and writing early poetry. [35:00] Persistence in publishing his first novel, A Scattering of Jades , after years of setbacks. [45:00] The exhilarating chaos of writing ARG puzzles and player reactions for I Love Bees . [56:00] Alex reflects on the collaborative process of writing comics and the delicate balance between writer and artist. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
Hope for the Future with Halo's Joe Staten 1:22:53

vor 13 weeks1:22:53

1:22:53

This week's guest is Halo and Destiny's Joe Staten. Beginning as a farmhand, he went on to lead teams in the Halo franchise, be on the core team for Destiny, write a NYT bestselling novel and work with the great Peter Jackson. Now looking for his next role, we discuss how Bungie was like a family business, the most important mysteries and creativity and risk - this week! Episode Highlights – Joseph Staten on The Fourth Curtain Podcast 🎙️ Guest: Joseph Staten – Writer, Cinematics Director, Creative Director, NYT Bestselling Author, Voice Actor, and former Halo/Destiny dev. 07:50 – Introduction – Alex and Aaron welcome Joseph Staten and reminisce about their early days working together. 09:05 – Joseph’s Bungie Origins – How Alex took a chance on Joe and changed his career trajectory. 10:45 – From Theater to Game Development – Joe’s academic path from Northwestern University and how it shaped his approach to storytelling. 14:15 – Wine, Farm Work, and Video Games – How working at a family vineyard led to playing Myth and ultimately a job interview at Bungie. 15:22 – The Wild Flight to Bungie – Joe’s harrowing experience on ATA Airlines en route to his Bungie interview. 18:36 – Lessons from a Non-Traditional Career Path – Why diverse backgrounds create stronger game developers. 21:30 – The Importance of Curiosity and Hustle – How a self-starter mindset helped Joe navigate the game industry. 28:34 – The Journey to Creative Director – How Joe transitioned from Bungie’s publishing team to leading game development. 33:24 – Hard Lessons in Leadership – Learning to communicate effectively and navigate failure as a team leader. 37:58 – Building Trust in Game Development – Why trust is the foundation of every successful project. 40:06 – Playing Halo as a Fan – Joe’s experience playing Halo games he didn’t work on, starting with Halo: Reach . 46:03 – ODST’s Development Challenges – How Joe and Paul Bertone led a small team to ship Halo 3: ODST under intense constraints. 50:40 – Difficult Decisions in Game Development – The toughest calls made during ODST and Halo Infinite . 52:30 – The Scale of Halo Infinite – Managing 800+ developers and the challenges of finishing a large-scale game. 56:22 – Why Aren’t There More Marines? – A small but impactful design decision in Halo Infinite . 58:26 – The Future of AAA Games – Joe’s thoughts on the shifting industry landscape and what’s next for game dev. 1:05:19 – Iteration is Key to Success – Why persistence and iteration define the best games. 1:06:41 – Writing Halo: Contact Harvest – The experience of Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
Games Workshop's Ian Livingstone, Fantasy Knight in Real Life 1:26:44

vor 14 weeks1:26:44

1:26:44

This week's guest is a founder of Games Workshop, publisher of White Dwarf magazine, creator of the Fighting Fantasy Books and Executive Chair of Eidos Interactive Sir Ian Livingstone. This Knight of the British Empire started a business while living in a van, prevailed through a Satanic panic about his Fighting books, saw the promise of a certain Tomb Raider and birthed a mass media entertainment phenomenon. Now using games for education, we talk getting bonkers exclusives, the 3 G's of gamedev and more - this week! 🎙️ The Fourth Curtain – S3 Ep01: Sir Ian Livingstone 🎲 [00:00:00] – Living in a Van to Build a Games Empire 🚐 Ian shares how he and his co-founder lived in a van outside a squash club while starting Games Workshop. [00:08:00] – GenCon, Early Game Distribution & Meeting Gygax 🎲 Traveling to GenCon, discovering Dungeons & Dragons , and securing the European distribution rights for TSR. [00:18:00] – Building Games Workshop & Warhammer’s Rise 🏰 The journey from selling board games to launching Warhammer and revolutionizing tabletop gaming. [00:26:00] – Fighting Fantasy & Interactive Storytelling 📖 How Fighting Fantasy books became a global phenomenon and pioneered branching narratives in gaming. [00:38:00] – Eidos & The Birth of Tomb Raider 🎮 The story behind discovering Tomb Raider during due diligence and its meteoric rise in gaming and pop culture. [00:49:00] – The Business of Games & Investing in Innovation 💰 Ian’s philosophy on game design, the importance of IP ownership, and why gameplay always comes first. [01:04:00] – Where the Games Industry is Heading 🚀 Thoughts on the evolution of games, emerging technologies, and the future of innovation in gaming. [01:11:00] – Closing Thoughts & A Look Ahead 🔮 Ian shares insights on the importance of creativity, the future of interactive media, and what’s next for him. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

The Fourth Curtain

1
Best of 2024 1:44:49

vor 15 weeks1:44:49

1:44:49

In this week's episode we recap some of the best moments from Season 2, with John Romero on hits and misses, how Peter Molyneux makes a game, Ed Fries on Xbox's Valentines Day massacre, Warren Spector on how playstyle is everything and much more! 🎮 The Fourth Curtain – S2 Best Of Highlights [00:00:00] – Season 2 Recap & Patreon Launch 🎉 Alex and Aaron reflect on Season 2, announce the new Patreon, and tease upcoming guests. [00:08:00] – John Romero’s First Game 👾 John shares how he programmed his first game on a mainframe in 1979 and discovered Colossal Cave Adventure . [00:26:00] – Mike Wilson & The Wild West of Publishing 🤠 Mike tells stories from GT Interactive , including publishing DOOM and the infamous Fabio Screensaver . [00:38:00] – Game Delays & Business Realities ⏳ Industry veterans discuss the tough decisions behind delaying games and the shift from retail to digital. [00:49:00] – Mitch Lasky on Venture Capital & Gaming 💰 Mitch talks about investing in Instagram, Twitter, Uber, Snapchat, Riot Games, and Discord . [01:04:00] – The Xbox Origin Story – The Valentine's Day Massacre 🎮 Ed Fries recounts the high-stakes meeting where Microsoft approved the original Xbox. [01:27:00] – Jesse Schell Predicts AI in Games 🤖 Jesse discusses AI-driven NPCs, procedural storytelling, and the future of interactive experiences. [01:32:00] – AI’s Impact on Game Development & Publishing ⚙️ Frank Gibeau and others explore AI’s role in monetization, engagement, and player behavior. [01:43:00] – Season 3 Tease & Farewell 🎭 A sneak peek at upcoming guests, including Sir Ian Livingstone , and an invitation to join the Patreon. Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life! Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian Producer: Shanglan (May) Li Art: Paul Russel Community Manager: Doug Zartman Featuring Liberation by 505…

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