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State Secrets: Inside The Making Of The Electric State

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Family Secrets: Chris Pratt & Millie Bobby Brown Share Stories From Set 22:08

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Host Francesca Amiker sits down with directors Joe and Anthony Russo, producer Angela Russo-Otstot, stars Millie Bobby Brown and Chris Pratt, and more to uncover how family was the key to building the emotional core of The Electric State . From the Russos’ own experiences growing up in a large Italian family to the film’s central relationship between Michelle and her robot brother Kid Cosmo, family relationships both on and off of the set were the key to bringing The Electric State to life. Listen to more from Netflix Podcasts . State Secrets: Inside the Making of The Electric State is produced by Netflix and Treefort Media.…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

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Parenting Teens Got You Stressed? 🎙️ Dr. Cam—The Teen Translator—Has Answers! Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam is the go-to podcast for parents who are ready to get real about raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell—adolescent psychologist, certified parenting coach, and mom of a teen—this podcast is all about honest conversations that dive deep into the challenges parents face and providing actionable solutions that actually work. Dr. Cam doesn’t just talk theories—she shares real-life insights and strategies based on over a decade of experience and the struggles she faces as a mom herself. Every episode offers practical, science-backed solutions to help you understand your teen, improve communication, and build a stronger relationship. Whether you’re dealing with mood swings, defiance, anxiety, or social media issues, you’ll find easy-to-apply advice that makes a difference. No interviews here—just authentic conversations that get to the heart of what parents are really dealing with. With a mix of expert tips and Dr. Cam’s own relatable stories, you’ll walk away with the tools you need to tackle even the toughest teen challenges with confidence. #Parenting #ParentingTips #ParentingAdvice #ParentingLife #ParentingSupport #TeenParenting #Teenagers #RaisingTeens #ParentingTeens #TeenBehavior #TeenCommunication #TeenMotivation #TeenDevelopment #AdolescentDevelopment #ParentTeenConnection #TeenMentalHealth #DrCam #TheTeenTranslator

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Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

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Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

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The #1 Secret to Getting Your Teen Into a Top College (It’s Not GPA!) 36:54

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In this episode of Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam , college admissions coach Dyllen Nellis reveals the secret to crafting standout college applications—authentic storytelling. Forget obsessing over GPAs—top schools want students who can articulate their core values, intellectual curiosity, and unique experiences. Dyllen shares expert strategies to help your teen write compelling essays, develop passion projects, and stand out in a competitive admissions landscape—without parental hovering. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE Why authenticity matters more than perfect essays How to help your teen find their unique story The role of passion projects in top college applications The right way to support your teen—without taking over 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Story Over Stats – Grades alone won’t get your teen into top schools. Their story and values matter more. Authenticity Wins – Admissions officers can spot fake or forced narratives. Encourage honesty. Passion Projects Stand Out – Schools want students who create real impact through their interests. Curiosity is Key – Support your teen’s genuine interests instead of pushing “impressive” activities. Guide, Don’t Hover – Give your teen space to explore, make mistakes, and develop their own voice. ❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share this episode and leave a rating & review. Your support helps other parents find expert advice to help their teens thrive. RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Free Masterclass: The Top School Admissions Formula Dyllen’s Website: NextGen Admit CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dyllen Nellis Instagram: @nextgenadmit YouTube: Dyllen Nellis TikTok: @nextgenadmit LinkedIn: Dyllen Nellis CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:00.942) Hey parents, Dr. Cam here. College admissions are no joke, trust me. I'm right in the thick of it with my own teen and it is stressful. And if you're like most parents, you're probably think that the GPA and your test scores are the golden ticket to getting into the top school. But what if I told you they're not the most important things? In this episode, I'm joined by Dyllen Nellis, a college admissions coach and founder of NextGen Admin who helps students craft applications that make them stand out beyond just grades. After getting accepted to every single school she applied to, including Stanford, yes, parents, she now helps students around the world to do the same. So we're gonna talk about the number one thing that gives your teens a competitive edge. You wanna hear it? Keep listening, welcome Dylan. Dyllen Nellis (00:52.595) Thank you for having me. Dr. Cam (00:54.698) This is such a hot topic, especially now. I know right now my daughter's waiting back to hear back from school. She's hearing from schools and a lot of juniors are in that like frantic mode of, my gosh, grades, grades, grades, grades, grades, building my resume. Why are you telling us that's not the most important thing? Dyllen Nellis (01:16.501) Well, I think people are so focused on grades, especially parents, you know, when putting a lot of pressure on their kids to do well in school. That's a very normal thing. And it is important, yes, to have good grades, but they are not the thing that's going to help you stand out at a top school, especially, you know, I know a lot of people are really excited about hopefully getting into a really competitive school. That's what I help people do. And what they have to understand is that the people applying to those schools will have those top grades and top test scores. Maybe not perfect, so you don't have to be ultra perfect in terms of grades and scores. the thing is, it's not going to be like, what's the difference between you and some other kid who has the same exact score? So the stats don't show the admissions officers who you are as a person or what you're going to contribute to their university. And that's what they want to know. So what I teach students is that their superpower is their story and it's their unique core values and how they can effectively articulate them in standout, powerful college essays. Dr. Cam (02:40.396) Right? So now parents are going, okay, so how do I craft a great story for my teen? How do I make sure my teen has a great story? What do you say to that? Dyllen Nellis (02:51.143) The first thing they need to do is understand who they are. A lot of students will think, okay, what do I write my college essay about? Let me just pick the worst thing that's ever happened to me and write about that. Or the parents will force something onto them and be like, well, you did that one leadership thing that one time, right? So shouldn't you write about that? I guess. And then a lot of times there's this, like, this force in a way that you try to contrive a narrative that doesn't quite express who they really are. And so that's why I say don't don't just start writing the essay, you have to do all of this work that comes beforehand. And so that work is first really sitting down and reflecting, reflecting on who you are, what makes you unique why do you do the things that you do? I think that's the most important part. Like I will get on a call with a student and they'll tell me they're interested in a certain major. And I'm like, okay, that's awesome. Why? Why are you interested in that? And they freeze and they have no idea what to tell me. And then sometimes they'll answer with like experiences that they had or clubs that they were in or things that they did. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm not asking you what you did. I'm asking you like something much deeper, like what is it about this thing that makes you so excited, that makes you intellectually curious? So those are the questions we have to start asking. And that takes a lot of reflection that I think students at that age are not used to. They're not thinking about what are my values as a person? What's my identity? Dr. Cam (04:42.606) They're trying to figure it out, they don't know yet. Dyllen Nellis (04:45.873) Exactly. And especially like, it's really cool once they start to understand this, because when they see the patterns of like, all of my experiences in my life actually line up in a way that made me the way I am today. And that's super cool. And I help them identify those patterns and what the values are that like connect all of their experiences together. And then those values become the themes or their college essay. So that's something that I don't think is talked about enough, or like rarely at all, is that college essay should have a theme. Like every single essay needs to have a different theme and that theme is whatever the core value is or whatever the main lesson or you know, how their mindset shifted, how they grew. That is what the essay needs to focus on. So not entirely about a certain challenge that they went through or a certain experience. It's more about what they learned from it because those values and skills that they gained are the things that they are going to contribute to the university. So then the university is like, oh, that's how you're going to make me look good. Dr. Cam (05:58.85) Right? I want to work backwards from this. So what you're saying is the essay and even the interviews, like my daughter has a lot of interviews, which I think is a similar thing, where they're asking her who she is, what she's passionate about, why she wants to go to that school. And the challenge that I'm seeing with a lot of the kids I work with is they don't know because a lot of them are going where they're supposed to be going and doing what they're doing because that's what they're told they should be doing. And that's what they, so they don't have an inner passion value, everything else. It's like the bottom line is cause my parents told me, right? So do you hear this? Do you see that answer? Dyllen Nellis (06:31.146) Yes, and that's honestly the hardest part, like especially if they're a senior in high school, that's when things get really hard because we're trying to like pull from nothing, or not nothing, but like there's not much there. And of course, when I work with a student, I can only work with what is actually inherently there because I care a lot about telling authentic stories. So I think this is a really good point to mention, especially for parents of students who are younger, you know, like younger in high school, freshmen, sophomore year, it's important that they're doing things that they actually care about and that lights them up. Because yeah, as we see later down the line, if they don't have that like inner motivation or passion, then it's really hard to craft stories. I actually have an anecdote of this quite recently I worked with a student, she booked a call with me and she presented me her essay and I was like, okay, cool. Let's look at it. But I could tell something was off about the essay. was about like a leadership experience. But for some reason, the story wasn't quite, it didn't seem real to me in a lot of ways. And it didn't seem like we didn't get to those deeper core values as I've been mentioning. So I started asking her about it and suddenly she starts breaking down and crying in front of me and she's like, you know, I don't know like this wasn't a good experience at all for me. Actually, I didn't learn much and my parents just told me that I should write about this and I don't know what I should do. And I was just like, my gosh, it made me so sad. Honestly, I will say I don't think that students in that case are like a lost cause. We can revitalize it, we can fix it. And that's why it takes someone who can help them realize the amazing qualities that they do have, the amazing experiences that they have gone through. Because I don't think, you know, it's exclusive to people who've been high giving their whole life. Like, everybody has a story to tell, it just takes someone to help them realize that instead of forcing a narrative onto Dr. Cam (08:58.658) We have this belief that we want to force a narrative that makes them sound really good and really high achieving and everything else. And I'm hearing parents already going, okay, so you're telling me my kid needs to do what they're really passionate about. Well, great. They're passionate about playing on their games all day or scrolling TikTok. That's all they're passionate about. So what do I do with that? Dyllen Nellis (09:27.657) I think that's really interesting if like, instead of maybe shutting down those interests, get curious, get curious about them. So especially with the TikTok one, I'd be like, what kinds of videos are you watching on TikTok? Because I know me, I will get really interesting. I don't know, people get such neat interests on TikTok. And like I would just the other day, I was like learning about manifesting and quantum leaps or whatever and how that relates to quantum physics. Like that was coming up on my feed and I was like, that's so interesting. So I started going down a rabbit hole on that. So your kid might actually be interested in these very niche things that are coming up on their feeds. And I would get curious about that, know, ask them, have conversations, just to learn a little bit more about what's going on in their head? What are the topics that they're thinking about? What are the questions that they have in the world? I think that's a great one. Pursue the questions. What are you thinking of? What are you curious about? What problems do you care about? Our generation is a lot more interested in social issues and mental health. So lean into those things. Does your kid really care about that? All of those things can, you can find some rich insights from there. Dr. Cam (10:58.124) Right, and I'm gonna take this Dylan and just kind of re-word what I heard to make sure I got this right. I'm hearing rather than fighting with your teen going, you should not be doing this, which you love, because that's not gonna look good and that's a waste of your time. You should want to do this and be doing this because this is gonna look better and this looks like you're being more productive. But when we do that, we're now pushing kids into something that they don't want to be doing. So when they have to talk about it passionately and their interests and what they love, they're like, I don't, I had to do it. So we really want to lean in. And when we lean in and you're right, a lot of kids discover things through TikTok and through other, and I share this too, like my daughter's really into Broadway and she follows all these Broadway stars and gets them, watch them prepare behind the scenes, she knows what like seats, how many seats they sold and what they're doing. And I don't know any of them, like all then sales and all that. Like she knows all this information and all this detail about the business that she learned through TikTok. And it's building and building and that's where she's going for school. That's what she wants to focus on because she so loves it. Right? So I think that that is such a great inlet into what they love. Dyllen Nellis (12:15.615) Yeah, you nailed it. You nailed it at summarizing that. I also think like, this is not to say like, don't, you know, help them do things that are going to look good. I would just say do so in a way that is still nurturing their interests. You know, so if a kid is really interested in, I don't know, physics, for example, great. What kind of research opportunities can we get for that kid? Like what kind of summer programs exist? Maybe they can start a physics club like, you know, help them learn the things that they are already interested in learning. Dr. Cam (12:57.526) Yeah, and I want to reiterate it's help not do. Dyllen Nellis (13:02.389) Yes, my gosh, yes. Dr. Cam (13:05.637) That's one of the things I know I'm working with a group of kids who are amazing and they're doing projects. And some of the projects you can tell the kids are doing and some of the projects you can tell are 100 % the parents. And you know, you know when it's the parents, because you're like, I'm sorry, there's no way, no matter how brilliant your kid is, that they're coming up with something that takes a college PhD to be able to do, right? What do you say to parents who are like, I want to make sure my teen is competitive and stands out, but I don't think on their own they are competitive and stand out that way. Dyllen Nellis (13:47.967) Ooh, okay. That's a good question. think, well, first understand that like growth is possible. We can, we can work on it. We can make them more competitive and more positioned to stand out in application season. So I would recommend if, they're earlier in high school, then it's a lot about extracurricular development. Things that really stand out are research, research opportunities. If you can work on your own research project, like independently led, that's awesome. Or work with a university and that takes a lot of like cold emailing usually. That looks awesome too. I know those things are also more challenging to acquire. Another thing I would highly recommend is a passion project as you kind of just mentioned, projects, right? Like projects are great and let your kid like tinker around and fail, you know, trial and error, play around, like explore their interests with projects and projects that especially relate to their interests. Number one, it's great if it can relate to their intended major because that helps them create a more cohesive application. Dr. Cam (15:08.685) Yeah. Dyllen Nellis (15:13.043) But projects that also solve problems. I know I mentioned earlier, like having questions, being curious. What are you curious about in the world? What are the problems that exist? What are the problems that you care about? And then create a project to try to solve it or work on it, you know? And so colleges want to see why not that you're not just that you are pursuing your intellectual interests, but that you're also trying to make an impact. Impact is so important to colleges and if you've been able to help your school community or your city or your entire country or internationally like those things look amazing and so just lean into how you can create positive change in the world because that's honestly what we need right now and universities are looking for students who are going to be change makers. Dr. Cam (16:06.05) Right. And it doesn't have to be big. Like, we don't have to go change the world. I think it's really little things. And as I said, the kids that I'm working with, it's the focus obviously is mental health. That's what my whole thing is. And they're going into their school or their community and doing a small, either a report or a cookie bake sale or something to bring awareness to mental health in their schools because that's something that they just, they want to do. Is that what you're talking about? Doing things like that? Dyllen Nellis (16:37.589) Yes, I think absolutely start small. Like don't, I know even get so overwhelmed and it will really freak you out. Like I'm speaking from experience, you know, when I was in high school, it's like, oh God, I have to create some like humongous thing. I don't know how to do any of that. Start small. You don't have to make an empire in one day. So it could start off with like making a club at your school. That works. I would recommend taking it further than bake sales though. just cause you want to make sure that this is something that creates real impact and can stand out. So, you know, whether that's like an educational program and then you're teaching in. Like I had a student who really leaned into robotics and she taught these classes in robotics to middle schoolers and she took it to farmers markets and displayed her robots and they had so many outreach efforts and she went to a conference and like chatted with all these other people to get signups for this other program that they put on. So as you can see there, she was able to help so many students in her community and at large. So yeah, as much as you can scale your impact, but you don't need to be at the finish line from the start, like starting small. Dr. Cam (17:57.59) Right. Now let me ask you Dylan, how involved should parents get into this? Because I think when kids are already, they're struggling with grades and parents are already very involved in trying to get their kids just to get good grades, right? And now they're going, okay, do I have to make sure I'm still on them about their grades? And now do I need to be on them about getting this passion project done? Dyllen Nellis (18:22.547) Yeah, I feel like also the language of on them feels so harsh. Dr. Cam (18:27.448) Thank you. Please address that. I would like for you to address that because I did that on purpose. Dyllen Nellis (18:34.221) well on them feels like you're hovering over them and like breathing on them, which doesn't feel good to the student and it doesn't make them want to like do the things that, I don't know. It makes them self-conscious also. Like I can, I can even just close my eyes and like step into that of like being with the student with the parent being like, you know, staring at me hovering over my whatever. So it doesn't feel good. It makes me feel like I can't make mistakes. It makes I'm literally just channeling right now. Like, what does this make me feel? It? Yeah, it makes me feel like I can't make mistakes. It makes me feel like I'm going to like for every decision that I have, I'm going to get faced with like a million, you know, have you thought about this? What about that? What about that? Like, well, here's the reality of that situation. So Dr. Cam (19:11.788) Good, I want you to be. That was my goal. I love it. Dyllen Nellis (19:33.651) For me, I feel like it would make it harder for me to dream big, honestly, because I feel like I'd be faced with a lot of backlash or objections before I even got started. But I need to just try things and fail at them in order to discover that for myself. Plus, like, those are where the experiences come, you know, like you get experience and then those experiences, guess what, can be the content for the college essay. Just saying. Dr. Cam (20:01.102) Correct. So even the failure makes a better essay when it's their authentic not succeeding at it, then succeeding at it, but their parents made them, did it for them, right? Okay. So the other thing now, how can parents best support their kids? First of all, if their kids are interested in doing this first, and then we're going to talk about if they're not. If their kids are like driven and they want to get into Stanford, they want to get into Yale, they want to look good, they want to do a passion project, how do we support them in that? Dyllen Nellis (20:41.533) Yeah, I think you should support your kid, first of all. I know we just said, don't be hovering over them, don't be on to them. But I think parents should absolutely still be part of the process. And it's wonderful when they are. I am grateful for the support that my parents gave me throughout high school. because my dad, for example, found Girls Who Code, that program, and showed it. Introduced that opportunity to me and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna apply to that and I did and it was awesome and I only knew about it because he had done some research online about that. So that's awesome. I would recommend just nurture their intellectual curiosity, lean into the things that they're already interested in and yeah, if you want to like look up opportunities online, find things that might interest them, that's great. And then you present them to your student. And then if they want to do it, you can take that next step. Right, right, exactly. Yeah, and then I think another important thing is for parents to understand a little bit more about the college application process and how it works. And that's a big problem is that parents are giving all this advice or not even advice, but like telling kids to do things in a certain way because they think that they know how the college application process works when I don't know if it's entirely true. Like they might know some of the Dr. Cam (22:12.174) So what are some big, big misconceptions parents have? Dyllen Nellis (22:16.19) Well, that's like the story thing that I was mentioning, but like they understand that a college essay needs to have a good narrative. And yes, that's true, right? But that doesn't mean that you like fabricate certain parts of the narrative to make it sound like a narrative because when I read those essays, I've read thousands and thousands of college essays. If I read one of those, I will know in an instant like, this is not what actually happened. I need to talk to the student. Or maybe it did happen, but like not in that way, or they didn't actually think or feel those feelings that is written on the college essay. So I'll often talk to the kid and then find out what the truth was. And I'm like, my God, let's write about that. That's actually so much more interesting. I helped them outline a whole new essay that's still on the same topic. It's still telling essentially the same story, but now it's true. It's authentic and it rings and it sounds great. I have an example of when my dad, at one point, I was writing my college essay for the UCs, the University of California schools, and we needed a turning point. It was like I was having this in the essay. It's like I was experiencing this problem and I needed inspiration to like take action. And he recommended me, right? And then I walked outside and stood underneath my big tree and the expansive like branches, the branches like inspire me to like expand my thinking. And I literally like wrote part of that in that essay. And now I look back and I'm like, this is the cheesiest thing I ever wrote. Thank God I didn't use that specific line in my essay to Stanford because I actually did use that same essay for Stanford, but I had to cut it down and I cut out that part and I made it better. But yeah, that's a great example of like, okay, if I read that, I would roll my eyes. I'm like, you did not stand under a tree and all of a sudden, like you decided to expand your thinking. What? Dr. Cam (24:24.065) Sounds very poetic. Not true. Yeah. So the messiness is good. We can have messiness. Dyllen Nellis (24:43.047) It depends. would recommend... I don't know. It's more about... I wouldn't say like having messiness. Dr. Cam (24:51.798) Not messiness in writing, but messiness in story. Like the story doesn't have to be a perfect story or can it be a messy situation. Dyllen Nellis (25:01.269) It doesn't have to be entirely linear and like, here's a bow tied around it like and then everything was solved. Everything was fixed. I think a lot of students think that they have to get there by the end of the essay. I'm like, just be real. What like, okay, if you're still experiencing whatever problem that was introduced in the beginning, you don't have to say, everything is solved. My life is perfect. But like, here's what I'm working on. Here's the lessons that I'm learning. Here's how I have started to take action in my life or improve my life in certain ways. Great. Like if you're on that journey, you've taken steps, then that's great. Yeah. I would be careful with the word messy though. I feel like I want to be very... Dr. Cam (25:48.29) Okay, I appreciate that. What you said is what I was thinking of just like real, but yeah, I guess when my life is real, I think messy, but that's my life. So let me ask you this. If you have a kid and you're like, they're smart, I know they have what it takes to get into the school, but they're just not motivated to do this. What do you recommend parents do in those situations? Dyllen Nellis (26:15.975) if they're not motivated to about the college application process or. Dr. Cam (26:21.432) Well, just about like doing a passion project or doing something or like exploring that situation where it's gonna have this great story. Or I talk to kids too, or like, I'm just boring. I've had kids that I've worked with who are struggling, and I mean, in a mental health capacity, but this comes up because that's what's stressing them out, right? And they're like, I don't know what's right, I'm boring. Like there's nothing exciting, or I'm not motivated to do all this stuff. So how do parents address that in your mind? Dyllen Nellis (26:53.235) Yeah. First of all, they're not boring. And I've had people tell me that too. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, you just haven't figured out what makes you unique yet. And let's figure that out. I can help you do that in an hour. Yeah. In terms of like motivating students, I think the most important thing is for them to understand why, why we want them to do this in the first place and what are the benefits of it. Right. Instead of just Dr. Cam (27:01.42) Yeah. It's fun to do that. Dyllen Nellis (27:22.163) You have to do this because it looks good to colleges. It's okay. A passion project I think is so awesome. First of all, because you get to learn more about the thing that you're interested in. You got to feel a sense of purpose, which is huge. You're like getting to do something that matters and really investing your all into it. And this is something that is self led. You get to be the leader in this. Like it's not a school assignment you have creative freedom, that's awesome. You're going to learn so many things along the way. So many things like once again, through the trial and error and failures, like those things are going to help you develop skills and lessons in life that you're going to use for the rest of your life. They're going to benefit you in so many other ways beyond college applications. And then it'll look good to colleges for your extracurriculars list. And then also because you have all of these new experiences that are not conventional, right? Because this is a project that you started. Not every other kid is doing this. This gives you such great content for your college essays. You know, if you want to focus in one of your essays on this passion project, but more specifically what you went throug how your mindset changed and how you grew as a person. That's so awesome. So if a student understands that and sees like all of the opportunities that can come from pursuing a passion project like that, then I think they'll be more motivated to want to take action. Dr. Cam (29:04.172) And we can't make them motivated to do it. We can give them all that information and feed that, but if they're not motivated at all, what do you say to that? Dyllen Nellis (29:20.469) Oh, I think I know where you're trying to take me, but you can, you can... Oh, really? Okay. Well, here's what I think. If you're like, my kid needs to get into a top school in order to be successful in life, then that is not true. They do not have to go to Stanford. They do not have to go to Harvard, you know, like... Dr. Cam (29:23.914) I'm not going to take you anywhere. I'm just asking because I know there's a lot of kids that are not motivated at all. Dyllen Nellis (29:49.841) they can get really great education and be so successful in their lives no matter where they go to college. So not everyone has to achieve at the same level, you know, and if that's just not like met for your kid, then that's fine. That's literally totally fine. So they don't have to get into a top school. So you don't need to force that onto them. If you know your kid would do better at a different type of school, great. You know, there's like so much great education out there. And, I, I honestly will say I've learned the most, not from college. I know I went to Stanford. I learned some great things there, but, you know, I started my entire business and company and like everything that I know about how to run a business. I learned online because I was just like, let me go on YouTube and, you know, here's another rabbit hole. And then I learned from online business owners. Like these are things that college couldn't really teach me. Dr. Cam (30:52.588) Yeah. And thank you for that. You kind of are right. That's kind of where I was trying to get you at. But I think the key is like listening to this. If you have a child or a teen who really personally themselves want to get into these schools and they really do or trying everything they can, this is a great piece of information that you can share with them. The story, the passion project, the essay are really core to differentiating themselves. If you have a kid that does not want to do this, even though you want them to do it, we can't force them and push them to do that. And that's okay. There's a lot of other ways that they can go about and find their path in life. Is that correct? Great. Okay. So I want to hear from you. How were your parents and what did your parents, because you're still so young, Dyllen Nellis (31:41.737) Yeah, absolutely. Dr. Cam (31:50.55) What did your parents do that you found were the most supportive and helped you the most when you were driven for your own success? Dyllen Nellis (31:50.943) My parents were great, first of all. I really appreciate all the things that they've done and how they helped me throughout my education. They never really, yeah, they didn't really force anything on me in high school. It's funny, I was just so high achieving and I put pressure on myself and that was just a me thing and I, yeah, it's kind of funny. But like I said, my dad found certain opportunities for me by searching online. I think he was proactive in understanding that you even, not had to, but it would look great if you did do a project, right? And so I didn't know that at all. And nobody at my school was talking about that. Like none of the kids were talking about that. Like nobody, no one was like. No one was very understanding of the college application process at my high school. Like that wasn't the thing. And so he introduced those ideas to me. I said, just just being exposed to those ideas or knowing that that is something, right? Like then I was interested in taking those steps. And if I had an idea, we would work on it, we would discuss it, we would brainstorm it together that was wonderful and if there were any resources that my parents thought that I would benefit from or people who they knew then they could introduce me. So that's yeah that's like a great thing. And then on my essays my parents definitely looked at my essays and helped me edit them as I mentioned before I don't think that they're perfect but that's okay. Dr. Cam (33:48.814) You can take some of their suggestions and not take some of their suggestions. Dyllen Nellis (33:54.011) Yes. And I also understand that some students may not want to share their essays with their parents. I think that is totally fine too. Because sometimes students are writing about really personal things. Sometimes it is about the relationship with their parents. Yeah. So I am really grateful for how my parents helped me with that. So it's just like, yeah. And any way that they can support providing resource doing research themselves or like presenting ideas, talking with me about certain ideas, that's all helpful. Dr. Cam (34:31.352) Yeah, I love that part of it. It's fun to do the brainstorming and just kind of throwing ideas around and then watching them go, watching them take it and go. And that's it's so cool. So Dylan, how do people find you if they want your support in this? Dyllen Nellis (34:47.793) Yes, you can visit nextgenadmit.com. That's my website. It has everything, all of my programs, all my services, all of that. I'm actually open to working with private clients now for sophomores and juniors in high school. So if that's something you're interested in, then you can book a free call with me on my website as well. And I do want to offer everyone here my free masterclass. I have a full hour long master class where I talk about the top school admissions formula. That's what I call it. And so I'll break down like these very specific parts that it takes to get into a top school. And that's super valuable. You'll get a lot of insight from that. So you can visit nextgenadmit.com slash master class and register for free. Dr. Cam (35:37.43) Right. I have a feeling a lot of my listeners are going to be jumping over to that because I know we've got, we've got a lot of high achieving kids. So thank you so much, Dylan. What is the one thing that you want people to walk away with from this conversation? Dyllen Nellis (35:54.047) Ooh, it's that competitive colleges admit students who can effectively articulate their core values, their intellectual curiosity, and their potential to succeed at their institution. That's what these colleges want. And so don't force a fake narrative. You want to tell an authentic story. Because if you're not telling an authentic story, you're telling a cliche one. Dr. Cam (36:19.362) Yeah, I love that. That is so important. Dylan, thank you so much for jumping on. This was great. Very helpful. Very inspiring. Dyllen Nellis (36:25.247) Thank you. ABOUT THE SHOW The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #CollegeAdmissions #ParentingTeens #AuthenticStorytelling…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

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Navigating the IEP Maze: How to Advocate for Your Teen & Overcome School System Barriers 30:21

vor 9 Tagen30:21

30:21

Is your teen struggling in school, but you’re hitting roadblocks trying to get them the support they need? The IEP (Individualized Education Program) process can be overwhelming—especially for minority parents facing additional challenges. In this episode, I sit down with Maria Davis-Pierre, a licensed mental health counselor, autism advocate, and founder of Autism in Black. Maria shares her personal journey navigating the special education system for her neurodivergent children and exposes the hidden biases that often prevent Black and minority children from getting the right diagnosis and accommodations. She also provides practical strategies for parents to advocate effectively, empower their teens, and navigate the IEP process with confidence. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE The biggest mistakes parents make when advocating for their child’s IEP—and how to avoid them Why Black and minority children are often mislabeled as behavioral problems instead of receiving proper support How to involve your teen in their IEP process and teach them self-advocacy skills The hidden biases in school support systems that every parent should know about 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Know Your Rights – Understanding the IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act) is crucial for effective advocacy. Cultural Bias Exists – Many minority children are misdiagnosed or overlooked, making advocacy even more critical. Empower Your Teen – Teens who participate in their own IEP process develop stronger self-advocacy skills for the future. Leverage Their Strengths – Connecting accommodations to your teen’s interests can make learning more engaging. Give Yourself Grace – The IEP process is challenging, but you are your child's best advocate. 🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫 🔔 Remember to hit SUBSCRIBE so you never miss another solution-packed episode! 🙌 CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Maria Davis-Pierre Website: autisminblack.org Instagram: @autisminblack CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell ABOUT THE SHOW The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. ✅ Follow for expert guidance on parenting teens EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 Navigating the IEP Process: A Personal Journey 02:49 Cultural Responsivity in Autism Support 05:52 Advocacy: The Unique Challenges for Minority Parents 09:04 Understanding the Special Education Process 12:00 Identifying Signs of Learning Difficulties in Teens 14:58 Overcoming Stigma: Supporting Teens with IEPs 17:52 Empowering Teens to Advocate for Themselves 20:54 Leveraging Interests for Learning 23:52 Finding Support and Resources 26:53 The Importance of Grace in Parenting FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:00) As a mom who's been through the school IEP process dozens of times at least, I can tell you it's quite overwhelming. Whether it's figuring out the process, understanding what support is available, or just trying to advocate for your teen or help them advocate for themselves, it's a lot. That's why I'm so excited for today's episode. I'm joined by Maria Davis-Pierre, a licensed mental health counselor, autism advocate, and the founder of Autism in Black. Her work has been featured in Forbes, USA Today, PBS and more. Today she's gonna do, give us the insight we need to navigate IEPs with confidence. Welcome Maria. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (00:39) Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. Dr. Cam (00:42) Me too. So especially as someone that's been through this process a lot, I know that is so challenging. But let's first start with you. Tell us a little bit about you and how you got into just autism and black, especially. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (00:57) Sure. So our story starts with our oldest child, Malia, who is now 12, almost 13, my goodness. And it started when she was about 10 months. I started to see the signs of characteristics of autism in her. And I knew with my experience as a licensed therapist, I was like, we need to get you know, in front of this and my husband who is a internal medicine physician, first he was like, you know, keep that over there with your patients. Don't come over here and diagnose my kid. But we started the process, went to our pediatrician, went to early steps program, which you know, every state has just might not be called early steps. And then eventually went to the pediatric neurologist trying to get this diagnosis for her. And it ended up with me actually boycotting in the pediatric neurologist office for a week because everybody was agreeing she was autistic, but nobody wanted to give her the official diagnosis because she was young. But we're all agreeing, we know it, we can't get certain services through insurance without this official diagnosis. And now you're saying wait a year and a half when we know she's still gonna be autistic. So boycotted in his office, he gave me the paperwork after a week of seeing him from the he came in to the time he left. And then, you know, started the service process. My colleagues start coming into our house and not understanding cultural responsivity, not understanding that you need to incorporate your client's culture into the work that you do. So it was, they were making it seem like we were resistant when in fact, they just weren't using interventions that were culturally responsive. And in talking to other individuals, we found that this was a norm, that we weren't the only ones experiencing this. So that's how we initially started Autism in Black. And now here we are, many years later with our podcast, our conference, our webinars and trainings. Now I have twins as well. have twins who are also neurodivergent and I got my own diagnosis. Dr. Cam (02:49) It's a family affair that you have turned into helping everyone else, which I love so much that you take your own story and your own pain and frustration and you help other people with it. And I know, I mean, I just talked to so many people that are so frustrated, not only with the system, but just as you were saying, the diagnoses and knowing what to do and finding people that they relate to and understand. I'm curious too, let's just dig in a little bit. Like what do you see as some of the differences that we may not know? Because I know there's a lot of microaggressions, there's a lot of little things that people are just not aware of that people should be aware of. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (03:52) One, when it comes to Black children in the school system, we are often not categorized as we should be, and we are deemed then a behavioral problem. So we are not even getting to the point to where we can get IUPs and 504s because it's not being seen as this child has a disability. It's more this child has behavior problems, they're bad, they're a bad seed type of thing biases that get in the way of thinking that black people can have disabilities, know, these children have disabilities that need supports in the school system. So that's one of the major factors as we see is that getting to the point to where we have the, can get the supports is a struggle. Dr. Cam (04:46) Yeah, I think this is such a big thing and I see this across many different cultures, right, where we just, we look at the behavior and we're very quick to make an assumption that there's something behavioral really destructive about them and not that there's a learning need, right, or not that there's neurodivergence and the system's not working for them. I mean, again, I've been through this with my daughter too and it's hard as a parent because you're like, is this just behavior that I should be dealing with or is this something different that they need support that they need? So when you're in that line, even as a parent, you're going, I'm not sure either. How do you know or how do you move forward with just that uncertainty? Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (05:16) One, we have to advocate differently than the typical parent who isn't a minority, have to advocate completely different. That means we have to go above and beyond. Like me sitting in that office for a week, you know, to get the paperwork, you know, us constantly staying on the schools, making sure that, you're going through this process, reading the actual paperwork and looking for any of those kind of adjectives that describe our children in a manner that can then hurt them down the line, right? So we have to make sure that we are going above and beyond every step. For any parent in general dealing with special education process, you're advocating in a different manner. You're having to go in there. You add in intersectionality and it just makes that process much, harder. It makes the advocating much, much harder because oftentimes we're not understanding if it's racism or ableism that we're dealing with because they're so intertwined with us. So having to tease that back and know what point we're advocating from is also something that, you know, is a difficult process. Dr. Cam (06:49) So you're sitting there going, I'm not an expert, so I don't even know if they have a diagnosis, let alone what they need for it. But I'm also going up a system that's making it really hard for me to even figure that out. And even if I do have it, I'm still needing resistance. I mean, parents are just exhausted as it is, so they're like, probably a many give up their children struggle and the whole time through school. And then again, the schools often, I mean, it just becomes a cycle, right? So now this child is seen as misbehaving and they're treated as misbehaving. It's just this whole huge thing, self-esteem plummets. So we don't want this to happen. So what is the first step that we need to do when we're at that stage of, I think something needs to be done? Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (07:28) That's what it is. I'm a big advocate for getting the medical diagnosis. Dr. Cam (07:48) Where do I go first? Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (07:57) I think, you know, that can sometimes be an easier route because we can take that into the school and, you know, start that leverage from there. But I know that there so many costs associated and also the wait times and, you know, there's so much that we're going through when we're thinking about that medical diagnosis. So if that is not a route that you were able to do prior to starting with the school, then go the route we're supposed to with, hey, something's wrong. Hey, let me speak to the sped-ed director. That's what we call them here in Florida. Sometimes they're case managers in other states. Speaking with that person, starting the process, getting everything in writing. You're going to have to go over and over and over again sometimes. Sometimes you might have to go through the tiered system of how they go through the process to make sure your child needs the support. But whatever the way is for that school, that district, that county, start there and then continue it. Sometimes our children are categorized in that EBD category and not in the category that they should be and then you have to start your fight from that way. So you have to figure out first how do I first get them to understand that my child needs these supports and then see where they're going to go with the category and then that will change your trajectory of how you're going to advocate. Dr. Cam (09:04) We have to do a lot of pre-education before we even go in there because we need to know what to expect, what is our rights, what is available, and what the process is. So before we even start the process, we've got to research and understand the process. Now, what are some things that you recommend parents make sure they educate themselves on and be aware about, especially if they're concerned about microaggressions. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (09:52) Mm-hmm one is IDEA I mean that's really kind of going to be your leverage for everything what I think is a disadvantage to everyone is the fact that Schools don't really know IDEA they have the culture of what's in the school that they go by but a lot of times It's not what's in the actual IDEA policies and the guidance and then when it comes to the black community, we're not even given the information of how the process works or should I get my child supports? Is this going to hinder my child? So there's so much that we don't know that that pre-education doesn't happen for us. It's after the fact of my child, the school has said my child has been identified or I'm thinking your child can be identified. So it's really kind of a disadvantage for our community because oftentimes we don't do the pre-education first because we don't know we should do the pre-education first, right? If you do have the opportunity, one, you are in a good place because now you know I can protect myself. Now I know that there is a set of laws that can guide how this process works. And in IDEA, parent is said more than any other team member. So that just shows how much of a pivotal point you are in the process. So making sure you know what is the rights for you, making sure you know what the rights is for your child, getting it in writing and constantly letting the school know, I know my rights. I know the rights for my child because that can make it easier for you. Dr. Cam (11:31) Now, when we're working with teenagers, there's a whole new many levels of complicated things that complicate the process. Because now we have the teens, when they're little, it's like, okay, this is what we need. This is what we need for our kid. And we're speaking for our kid. Now that we have a teenager, the first thing is we see that our teen is struggling in school and we don't know why. And a lot of times our assumption again is they're not making an effort. They don't care. They're being defunct. We put a lot of those labels on them first. Parents do, teachers do, right? Rather than going, what's going on? So let's first look at what are some signs that maybe we can look for? And I don't know if this is the right question for you, but what are some signs we can look for maybe that says, you know what, maybe we need to look if there's some learning difficulty here that's getting in their way. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (12:31) No, I think that's the perfect question, especially from a mental health standpoint, because one of the biggest signs is change in behavior. If your child is having what is considered a sudden change in behavior, they are struggling when they weren't struggling before, right? Because middle school and up is a different ballgame for children. is, middle school is one of the hardest transitions for children because they're going from elementary where they're handheld through everything and then pushed into middle school and now you are independent. Okay, you do it type of thing, right? So that would be a big turning point for a lot of parents because then they see there's something going on here, right? My child has to be taking the lead on making sure they're getting their stuff done, right? They're the ones who have to make sure that they're transitioning from period to period just fine, right? You know, so we'll start to see a lot of those signs and then you're like, well, what's going on here? And at first, like you said, it can be, why are you not getting it done? What's really going on here? Why, you know, because teens, I'm on my phone, I'm on social media, I'm everything, right? So it's oftentimes like you just don't want to do it. But, you know, those sudden changes are also behavior as a form of communication. So also go beneath that iceberg of the tip of what you're seeing and discover is there something more there because that behavior is going to be the first red flag for you. Dr. Cam (14:00) I can't stress that and underscore that enough with a lot of the teens I'm working for. They're getting in trouble all the time. It's blamed on the phone and they're struggling just to focus or just to like understand. And so it doesn't help when there's more punishment and criticism and everything else. So it's stopping and going, okay, they're struggling. Let's figure this out. Now let's get to the next step, the stigma. I live in a very well-educated, high, you know, esteem place where, my gosh, everyone wants to be all straight AAP students and to say, my child actually needs extra support and an IEP. A lot of people have trouble with that and a lot of teens have trouble with that. So how do we overcome the stigma to get the help we need? Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (14:39) One, very good question. And it's so difficult because when your teen is, you know, at that age, everything can be kind of embarrassing for them. And they're like, this is shame. I don't want people to think that I'm different. I don't want to be different, right? When we're adults, we understand that that was a moment in time. But for teens, it's like everything at that moment, right? I don't want to be different. I don't want this spotlight on me. I don't want people to see that I need accommodations and modifications. And that can be a difficult thing because as a parent you're over here something needs to be done. I want to advocate. I want to do this. But when your teen is like, please mom don't don't right? It's not anything for you to be concerned about. I'm going to get it together. And they are taking on all of that added stress and pressures because middle school and above is so much pressure for these kids that it is to I'm like you're stressing these children out, right? So my thing is therapy can also help in that aspect of understanding that, hey, there's nothing wrong with me getting some support. There's nothing wrong with me getting accommodations that then can, one, take stress off of me, two, help me be on equal playing field with my peers. So it's one about changing that mindset for you and your child, and then going from there. Dr. Cam (16:22) There's this belief that we're either smart or not smart. And if we can't do it, we're not smart. But if you think about it, if you went to learn a new sport, of course, you're going to get a coach to help you do better. Of course, you're going to look at where your strengths are and where your weaknesses are. But in education, for some reason, we think if we can't figure it out on our own, that just means we're dumb or it's embarrassing to need somebody. So I think it is getting through that. Now we've got the parents are on board and I know parents struggle with it too, because they don't sometimes want to admit, my child's not this straight A getting everything student, my child needs help. But now we're getting to the point where we see what is available and our teen is really, really resistant. Because of mostly because of what you just said. How can parents address that resistance in a way that doesn't create more arguments and frustration? Because I see that a lot too. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (17:23) One is open communication with your child. I think finding out an equal balance of where they can get the accommodations, but if they can be where it's not such a big spotlight, right? Where they can like, for instance, my daughter has a thing where she can have a certain signal that the teacher knows that she needs help. So the teacher doesn't have to come over and be like, do you need help with this? Do we need to do this A, B, and C? But she can give a signal to where then they know she needs help, right? So we're some of these things to where they're getting the assistance, but it's not such a big spotlight on that. And the team can feel secure in knowing that I know that when I need certain things that this is what I can do. And nobody has to know my business because a lot of times that's what it is because we know bullying happens. We know teasing happens, right? And we don't want to feel like that outsider. So having that communication with your team, asking them what they need, because sometimes parents go into school and they're advocating, not knowing that that is not something that their team is going to work with, that that accommodation is not going to be something that they feel OK with. It doesn't work for them. So having that communication and involving them makes it a lot easier because now they feel like they've had input in their life, which they should. Dr. Cam (18:46) That is so key and so important. Your teen has to be involved. End of story. If we're doing this behind their back, just what you said, we don't necessarily know what they need and they feel like even less in control. I've always told people, my daughter's had an IEP before she could barely talk because she had speech difficulties. We've been in the system from the get-go. But she has been in our meetings advocating herself since she could talk. Like she was always there and now she does all of it. And I just go, do you want me there for support? I'm not going to say anything because you've got this. And she's so great at advocating for herself now. And it feels so empowered about it, but she's done it. So it's about her, not about what I need for her. It's about what she needs for her. And I think the other thing is normalizing it. That was another big thing that's always been a part of our conversations. It's not that she's dumb. It's not that she's struggling. It's that she needs different ways to learn that the school doesn't necessarily provide to everyone. So now she has these. So it's become empowering to her to be able to ask for these and have it, which is amazing.But I don't see that a lot. see a lot of kids feel like this is a sign of weakness. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (20:14) Because in this, like you said, because it's not normalized, or it's normalized in our homes because it is normal for us, but in other homes to where the child doesn't have a disability, it's not normalized, right? So they don't understand that people are different, and then that makes it more difficult because, yes, in my house, this is normalized, but when I leave my house and others are talking about me, I'm seeing that, okay. This is not, they don't understand that it's not normal, right? They don't understand that what their experience is, is not the norm, right? So they're thinking to me that I'm the different one, right? No. That's where it comes to everybody really getting that education. There's when it comes to really understanding that schools should have accommodations weaved in to the system so that students, especially when it comes to students who don't get identified, and it can make it easier. It makes the whole school system easier for everybody, for the teachers, for the admins, for the students, because there are so many students who are not identified, especially as we're getting older because they're looking at more behavioral issues. So the conversations have to just go more than outside of homes where we're dealing with it. They need to be in homes where they're not dealing with it, where that is not their norm, you know. So it comes with that as well. I love that your daughter advocates for herself to their mom's a therapist right so they advocate in completely different ways because their parents have taught them completely different the way that my children advocate people know that their mom is a therapist that is just no like Dr. Cam (21:46) So is mine. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (22:02) Your mom must be in this work. Yes, because of how they advocate, because of how I raise them. That's not the norm. The way that my children and your child is not the norm, but because their parents are in the field, it's the norm for them. So that's where the conversations have to go beyond these households. Dr. Cam (22:07) I want this conversation because I want everyone else to know, listen, this is extraordinarily empowering when your child has control and ability to advocate for themselves. And we've normalized the fact that there are going to be places that you're going to struggle. Everyone does. And I think this, we struggle in all kinds of different things in the world for some reason, because everyone has to go to school and everyone is compared to everyone at the exact same time based on age, that really magnifies differences and they're stuck in this place. So the comparisons are really huge when in everything else, the differences are just as vast, but we're not in a microcosm, right? We're not in this little Petri dish looking at every single person. So the people that particularly struggle in that one area, Let's be real, it's one area of type of learning. Get stigmatized, right? And looked at, right? So the other thing, and I want to ask you how you do this too, is we focus on this is one way that you learn and that's not the best way that you learn. So we're going to find all the other ways that you are super strong in and all your other strengths that may not show up in school, but we're going to really magnify those in the rest of your life. And that builds her confidence. Tell me about how you do that with your kids, because I know you do. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (23:52) We do that by their interest really. So for example, my preteen almost teenager loves culinary. She wants to be a chef. She's in the culinary program at her middle school. That's she chose that middle school based on them having that culinary program. That's her thing. And we utilize her love for culinary to help with other things because when you're doing a recipe, there's math, there's reading, there's all of that. So when we're able to weave it into her interest, she can then apply it in other areas, right? Of course, she's dealing with fractions. She's dealing with having to be able to comprehend the recipe to know this comes first, this comes second, this comes third. So when you take it with their interest and weave it into there, it makes it fun for them, because they're like, I'm doing my interest, but they're also learning and you're getting both of the good things happening at once. So weaving it in with their interest, I find has been very easy for me to get the learning in, but also making sure that they're not bored, they're not tired, they're not feeling like I can't get this type of thing because they're invested in their interest. Dr. Cam (25:06) It's amazing that they will do things that they struggle with in school without any problem at all. Because my daughter is all theater, right? So she has to do reading comprehension in school and struggles with it, but she will go read an article and give me every little detail and memorize everything about it when it's about theater. She knows like the price, the cost. I don't even understand it all. Like she just knows everything about it. And I'm like, how'd you know that? Well, I read that whole thing, but you can't read this paragraph and say, no, that's boring. It has nothing to do with comprehension, it has to do with that's boring. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (25:40) Preferred, fast-spirited. And I'll tell you, I am a 41-year-old who is autistic and has ADHD. I have non-preferred and preferred things, and I will avoid something that I don't like to do, but something that I am heavily invested in. I will know every single, it will be done on time, get it in, anything else. The executive functioning skills start, and I have to learn, okay, I need to implement my coping skills, have to implement my accommodations, right? And for children who don't have fully formed brains, who don't have the emotional regulation of adults, we can't hold them to higher standards of, you gotta get this done. They don't want to, because it's not fun. Dr. Cam (26:23) Thank you for saying that, the higher standards, because I do, again, see this a lot where we lose our crap, but get upset when our kids do. And our kids have less ability to regulate their emotions than we do. We get upset when our kids don't get everything done right when we want them to get it done. But I mean, I've been tripping over my Christmas tree in the foyer for months now, because I don't feel like putting it away. If that had been my daughter's, I would have been really annoyed with her forever and ever because she hasn't put it away yet. So I think we do have to look at what standards are we setting for our kids and what priorities, right? Like our priorities are different from theirs. So when they're struggling at school and when they're struggling at different things, we need to take all this into account, right? They're doing their best. They really, really are. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (27:16) They really are. Exactly. And weave those things into their IEPs. My son, he likes to stand to do his work. It's in his IEP that he can stand and do. If he's not bothering anybody, don't bother him, right? He has a spin disc. The things that he needs, weave it in there because then it makes it easier for them to be able to learn. If they're constantly not regulated, not feeling comfortable, then they're not going to do it. But if you're weaving in those things that are going to help them, that they enjoy, it makes it easier for everybody involved. Dr. Cam (28:02) Yeah, and that's just in real life, you can do that. So it's just advocating so they can do that in school where they're learning how to do it. So Maria, tell us how can people find you, especially if they need to learn from you because you're going to help them navigate this, which is very complicated. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (28:06) Yes, it is. Listen, it's complicated thing, but we try to make it enjoyable over here at Autism in Black. So you could go to our website, autisminblack.org, and it has everything. has how you can work with me, how you can get access to our conferences, podcasts, all of our social media handles. It has everything there. You just go to autisminblack.org and you can connect with me. Dr. Cam (28:48) I love it. Thank you so much. And what is one key takeaway that out of all this, which was a lot, what do you really want parents to remember from this? Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (28:55) One is grace. Give yourself grace and give your kids grace. I think oftentimes society places these expectations that we feel we have to live by and it makes it so hard for us and our kids. And understanding that grace will help. I think it makes it less stressful for you and them. Dr. Cam (29:03) It's so important. It really is. We have a lot of shoulds that we live by and the shoulds need to be trashed because they they're pile on. So yeah, I love that. So give ourselves grace. Thank you, Maria, for joining us. We really appreciate it. Maria Davis-Pierre, LMHC (29:25) This was fun. Thank you for having me. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam #IEPadvocacy #specialeducation…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

1
Unlock Teen Motivation: Science-Backed Strategies with Dr. David Yeager 38:59

vor 13 Tagen38:59

38:59

In this episode, Dr. David Yeager, a psychology professor at the University of Texas, shares groundbreaking insights from his book 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People . He challenges common misconceptions about teen motivation and presents research-based strategies for parents and teachers to encourage teens. Dr. Yeager explains how understanding the teenage brain, using autonomy-supportive language, and practicing "do-overs" can improve communication and motivation. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE The science behind motivating teenagers and turning procrastination into action. Why the teenage brain isn't "incompetent" and how it responds to different stimuli than adults. How to use autonomy-supportive language to connect with your teen and boost motivation. The importance of aligning your arguments with your teen’s values. How to use “do-overs” to repair communication breakdowns and strengthen your relationship with your teen. 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Motivate by understanding, not controlling: The teenage brain is wired differently but isn’t "broken." Understanding their perspective and values leads to better motivation. Autonomy matters: Teens need to feel in control of their choices, so use autonomy-supportive language to encourage responsibility. Teen emotions are powerful: Harness the intensity of teen emotions instead of fearing them. These emotions can be a source of motivation if managed well. Communication is key: When communication breaks down, practice “do-overs” to repair the situation and strengthen your relationship. Don’t fear the challenges: The struggle to motivate teens is not a sign of failure—it's an opportunity to connect and guide them more effectively. 🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫 🔔 Remember to hit SUBSCRIBE so you never miss another solution-packed episode! 🙌 RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE 10 TO 25, the Science of Motivating Young People by Dr. David Yeager EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction: Unlocking the Science of Motivating Young People 03:41 Understanding the Teenage Brain: A New Perspective 06:27 Motivating Teenagers: The Power of Autonomy Support 14:44 Building Stronger Connections with Teenagers: Practicing Do-Overs CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dr. David Yeager Website: DavidYeager.com Twitter: @DavidYeager CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:01.513) If you're like most parents, motivating your teen to do anything productive can feel like a daily struggle. But what if we could unlock the secret to turning procrastination into action, disinterest into engagement, and resistance into enthusiasm? That’s what we’re going to talk about today. I’m thrilled to be joined by Dr. David Yeager, a professor of psychology at the University of Texas at Austin, renowned for his influential research alongside esteemed colleagues like Carol Dweck, Angela Duckworth, and Greg Walton. In his latest book, 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People , Dr. Yeager dives deep into the science of adolescent motivation. He’s going to share some of his findings with us today. Dr. Yeager, welcome to the show! Dr. David Yeager (00:46.424) Thanks for having me. I was a middle school teacher right out of college, teaching sixth through eighth-grade English at a low-income school. I also taught K through eighth-grade PE, meaning I had seven or eight preps a day. I struggled with all the challenges you can imagine—everything from getting third graders to line up for dodgeball to getting seventh graders to read The Once and Future King and The Outsiders , and turn in essays on time. I felt frustrated by the advice I was given by the scientific community and research, which led me to want to do better research. I’ve spent my career trying to conduct applied research that provides parents and teachers concrete suggestions on what to say (and what not to say) based on rigorous experiments. Dr. Cam (01:49.151) You’ve definitely piqued everyone’s interest. I’m curious, what was the advice you received earlier that didn’t work? Dr. David Yeager (02:02.478) Think back 20 years. The big ideas around motivation for young people were about their traits—some kids are motivated, others aren’t. Some kids are helpless, some are extroverted, others are reserved. Yes, there are individual differences, but that’s not useful for me. I’m not going to give a personality test on the first day of class and say, “Okay, you’re the type who’s just going to sit there doing nothing.” The other advice was abstract and didn’t have experimental backing. It would say things like, “Set a mastery goal” or “Promote intrinsic motivation over extrinsic motivation,” but real life is more nuanced. For example, if someone asked me how to motivate an eight-year-old, I’d say, “I use a lot of Pokemon cards and candy.” With younger kids, you need something to get them over the initial hump. Once they realize success feels good, you can build intrinsic motivation over time. The advice I received was either too simplistic or not useful. I wanted clarity on what to say to make kids more intrinsically motivated or persistent, and that’s what we’ve focused on in our randomized experiments. Dr. Cam (03:41.47) I love this and can’t wait to hear more. Let’s talk quickly about why it feels so hard to motivate our teenagers in the first place. Dr. David Yeager (03:53.74) A traditional narrative is that something’s wrong with this generation—brainwashed by phones, distracted by political unrest, and so on. While there are differences compared to when we were growing up, I think a lot of the complaints are overstated. For example, think about how much more attention we can give now with technology—like when you’re driving, you don’t have to worry about getting lost because you have Google Maps. We used to spend so much time with physical maps or printing out directions from MapQuest, hoping the printer worked. Sure, there are distractions now, but we wasted a lot of time in the past, too. Dr. Cam (04:30.849) Thank God for that! I remember getting lost a lot more. Dr. David Yeager (04:51.212) Right? I think a lot of what’s happening now is a net even. Older generations have always complained about younger ones—this goes back to Aristotle and Plato. What I want to focus on is the timeless aspects of the adolescent brain that haven’t changed over the course of hundreds of thousands of years, and how they respond to cultural and technological shifts. Fundamentally, young people’s brains, from the onset of puberty, start craving experiences of status. The feeling of earning a prestigious reputation in the eyes of someone they care about has never felt as good as it does during puberty. On the flip side, the humiliation of being rejected or failing publicly at something important never feels worse. Given the intensity of these emotions, we as parents can’t just tell kids to “get over it.” We have to understand it and figure out how to harness it. Dr. Cam (06:26.913) I love this because it speaks to how parents often say, “Well, this is how I was raised, and it worked for me.” But 20 years ago, we didn’t know nearly as much as we know now about the brain and teen development. We know so much more now that can help us avoid some of the trauma many adults are still recovering from. If we can prevent that, why wouldn’t we? Let’s talk about the teen brain. I’m with you—evolution doesn’t change that quickly. The world around teens today has changed drastically, and they’re doing the best they can in this world we’ve created. Dr. David Yeager (07:42.146) The most important thing to keep in mind is that there are different metaphors for what the teenage brain is doing. The metaphor we choose shapes how we deal with it. One common view is that young people are neurobiologically incompetent—that the moment puberty strikes, they get a “frontal lobotomy,” can’t plan ahead, can’t reason logically, are short-sighted, impulsive, and selfish. That view goes back to Plato’s Phaedrus , where young people were compared to unruly horses needing to be controlled by a charioteer. Neuroscientists have used this view, partly because it has served as a convenient legal argument for youth offenders. It’s true that kids don’t always think about the lifelong consequences of their actions, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t thinking. They’re just thinking about different things, not long-term self-interest. The updated view is a neurobiological competence model. Teens are really good at some things—just not what adults expect. The teenage brain is like the R&D engine for our culture. As society and technology change, teens have to adapt quickly and figure out how to succeed in our world—and they do this far faster than adults. What adults may see as a short attention span is often the brain at the frontier of innovation. Think about it: The same adults who complain about kids loitering at the mall might be served by an excellent 16-year-old waiter without even noticing. The teenage brain is paying attention to different things, and once we understand what those things are, we can communicate more effectively, inspiring independence and motivation in young people. Dr. Cam (10:46.249): That’s fantastic. It’s so true. Their priorities are different from ours, but that doesn’t make them wrong; it makes them different. My understanding is that the prefrontal cortex is still developing during adolescence, forming connections. So, complex skills like emotional regulation and problem-solving are still being developed. It doesn’t mean they can’t do these things, but they’re primed to learn how to do them better. This is a time for practicing those skills, but we can’t expect them to have it all figured out yet. Is that correct? Dr. David Yeager (11:28.268): Yes, that’s mostly correct. The brain’s emotional regulation is an experience-dependent process. Some things, like bone growth from drinking milk, happen automatically, but emotional regulation depends on experiences. You learn to regulate emotions by actually going through emotional experiences. The old model suggested that logical reasoning in the prefrontal cortex dampens the impulsive emotional regions of the brain, but now we know that the emotional areas teach the prefrontal cortex what to care about. Carol Dweck, who developed growth mindset theory, recently published a paper showing that goal-directedness, driven by emotions, guides the brain’s development. Teenagers can focus their cognitive resources when motivated by something important to them, and that experience changes their brain and their mindset. The challenge for us as adults is that when there’s a conflict, it’s often because their goal isn’t to regulate their emotions to meet our demands. Their brain won’t be receptive to our goals unless they perceive them as important. Dr. Cam (13:53.183): This ties right into motivation. We’re not saying kids aren’t motivated; they just aren’t motivated to do what we want them to. When we talk about kids being unmotivated or lazy, it’s not that they lack motivation or drive, it’s that they’re focused on things we don’t care about. Dr. David Yeager (14:18.574): Exactly. The same parents who complain about their kids not doing homework or practicing the cello will find that their kids are excellent at planning how to sneak out to a party. That’s goal-directed behavior. Teenagers are incredibly good at setting and achieving goals. It’s like watching a 17-year-old Canadian win gold in swimming at the Olympics. Teenagers can absolutely focus when it matters to them, but their priorities are different. Our task as adults is to figure out what matters to them, which often comes back to social reputation or status—not in a superficial way, like social media likes, but in a deep, meaningful way. The question they’re asking is: How am I a valuable contributor in the eyes of people whose opinions I care about? And adults often don’t care about that; they just want compliance. They want kids to listen because we said so. That’s fine when they’re little and we need them to get their shoes on for school, but as they grow, we can’t expect them to simply obey without question. That doesn’t help them be the innovators we need for the future. Dr. Cam (16:01.181): It makes so much sense. When we project them into the future, do we want kids who just do what they’re told? We see this now in the workforce, where many complain that kids can’t think for themselves and only do the bare minimum. But it’s not because something’s wrong with them; it’s how we’ve raised them. Dr. David Yeager (16:25.014): Yes, we’ve done it to them. The emotional development of the brain is an experience-dependent process. If kids grow up thinking they should listen to adults without question just because they said so, they’ll either stop listening to anyone or, worse, they’ll become compliant without thinking. We’ve seen this problem in society, where people just pick a side and repeat what their team says without engaging in real discussion. What we need are young people who can think critically, consider nuanced alternatives, and apply them in their lives. If we raise kids like that, society will benefit greatly, not just in terms of parenting, but because those kids will become innovators who can solve the world’s biggest problems. Dr. Cam (17:27.263): Right. One thing that trips us up is perceiving their attempts to express their opinions or what’s important to them as disrespect. We shut it down and say, “You’re not allowed to say that.” I see this often, and I think it sends a harmful message that their opinion is wrong just because it differs from ours. That creates someone who can’t think independently. Dr. David Yeager (17:56.118) Yeah, I think the biggest confusion I see is around the word "respect" or "listen." This is influenced by Rosalyn Wiseman, a thoughtful parenting leader. When parents say "respect," they usually mean unquestioned obedience. When kids say "respect," they mean being heard and valued as real people. Same with "listening." When kids say, "Nobody listens to me," they mean nobody cares about their perspective or why they might have legitimate reasons for being reluctant. What I’d love is to have a shared definition of respect, where people are treated as adult-like humans with independent thoughts and feelings. The reason adults view it one way and kids view it another is due to the neurobiological incompetence model. If adults think young people can’t think, that they’re impulsive or short-sighted, then why would we care about their opinions? We assume we’ve already figured it out. But if we adopt a neurobiological competence model, where we see young people as adapting to culture before we are, understanding things we don’t yet see, it makes more sense to ask questions, listen, and see where they’re coming from. Dr. Cam (19:52.37) I love that. It explains so well that we need to value them as unique individuals with their own minds and needs, not as extensions of us who just need to do what we want. This is where I see a lot of friction between parents and teens. Dr. David Yeager (20:12.172) Yeah, there’s a study I talk about in the book where I look at a phenomenon I call "grown-splaining"—kind of like mansplaining, but it’s grown-ups telling kids what to do. The logic behind it is, "If only you would listen to my clear, logical reasons, you’d change." But that doesn’t work. In the study, they recorded moms nagging their teenage daughters and then put the daughters in an fMRI scanner to see what happens in the brain. What they found is that the logical reasoning regions of the brain actually go down. The anger regions go up, meaning the teenage girls are getting more frustrated. But what’s most interesting is that the social cognition regions of the brain, the areas related to understanding the meaning behind what’s being said, were less active. So when a teenager hears nagging, they’re not processing the reasoning—it’s like the words go in one ear and out the other. But this is situational—it’s about the tone of our voice, how we tell them what to do, and not involving them in the conversation. When we impose our goals and values without their input, they check out. But if we create a different context, we can see much better engagement. Dr. Cam (22:20.543) I want to flip this a bit because I can already hear parents asking, "So, should we just let them do whatever they want? Are we always wrong and they’re always right?" They’re worried about things like video games taking over their kids’ lives while homework or chores get ignored. These are real concerns. How do we address that? Dr. David Yeager (22:45.55) For sure. The wrong response is to say, "We should have no standards and let the kids run everything." That’s not what I’m suggesting. In my book, I talk about experts who work with young people, like the best manager at Microsoft for 20-year-olds or a top high school physics teacher. I also spoke with a coach who works with teenage NBA draft prospects. What they do is nothing like letting young people run wild. They have incredibly high expectations, but they provide the support for kids to meet those expectations. What we’ve learned is that there are two ways to get this wrong. One is what we call an "enforcer mindset," where the goal is to enforce high standards and leave the kids to meet them on their own. This can make parents come across as authoritarian—compliance might happen, but it’s not willful. The other extreme is the "protector mindset," where parents focus on protecting kids from distress and low self-esteem, leading to low expectations and kids walking all over them. The middle ground is the "mentor mindset." In this model, you have very high standards but also high support. This combination helps kids develop into meaningful contributors to society, able to follow rules but doing so because they understand the reasons and internalize the values. It’s not about dictating rules—it’s about helping them take ownership. I’ve seen this in action, and it works. There are many examples and practices from these mentor-leaders in the book, and fortunately, anyone can start applying them. Dr. Cam (25:24): So, give us some examples because I think there’s a very fine line to walk here. People really struggle with the difference between mentoring and controlling—or maybe more accurately, micromanaging. I see a lot of micromanaging, where parents think they’re helping and teaching. What’s the difference? Dr. David Yeager (25:48): Yeah. Well, I think if you hold a high standard for things like personal conduct—like cleaning your room or helping around the house—young people will complain. They don’t want to do those things. And the easiest way to stop the complaints is to just lower the standard. "Okay, fine, I’ll do it," right? I have four kids, so I get that. But sometimes, when we hold the standard, it turns into a shouting match. And we’re left thinking, “Who have I become?” What I’ve learned is a couple of things. One is that a big reason for complaints is that we’re often not transparent about why we’re holding the standard. We might just say, “Do this,” and when they ask why, we say, “Because I said so.” We don’t explain. But explanations show respect. If I asked you to do something for me without giving a reason, I’d come across like a jerk. I’d be manipulating you. But we talk to teenagers this way all the time, which would be totally inappropriate with other adults. The problem is that we still think they’re children, and they think they’re adults. So, there’s this two- to three-year gap in communication. They feel talked down to, and we feel like we’re being appropriate. So, sometimes, you can ask for the same thing but be clear about your intentions. Show them how what you’re asking will help them become a better person or contribute to their happiness. Transparency is one simple step. Another, a bit harder, but very important, is questioning. Instead of just telling them, try asking for their perspectives. Avoid questions like, “What were you thinking?” because that implies they weren’t thinking. Instead, show curiosity by asking authentic questions that invite them to share their reasoning. When you do this, they feel respected and heard, and they’ll often start telling you what you want. I’ll tell you, a lot of this comes from negotiation tactics, like those used in hostage situations. Sometimes talking to a teenager about going to a party feels like a hostage negotiation! And it turns out, the same tactics that work for negotiating with hostages also work with teenagers. Dr. Cam (28:51): That’s so true. The power of empathy and validating their feelings is key. We struggle with this because some people confuse it with agreeing with them. It doesn’t mean agreeing with their anger or frustration—it just means acknowledging that their feelings are real, which is non-negotiable. What they feel is what they feel. Dr. David Yeager (29:08): Exactly. Dr. Becky has a great phrase: the "most charitable interpretation." When your teenager does something frustrating, pause and try to think, “What’s the most charitable possible interpretation of this behavior?” Often, their behavior is just their way of seeking status and respect, either from you or from their peers. If you start with curiosity, trying to understand what they want, it doesn’t mean you have to agree with them. But understanding them puts you in a better position to negotiate. The problem with negotiations is offering something they don’t want. If you understand what they want, you can offer a deal they’re more likely to accept. That’s often what it’s like talking to teenagers. Dr. Cam (30:03): I tell parents all the time, you might be offering a solution, but you’re solving for your problem, not theirs. Then, when they don’t agree with it, you get upset. That happens a lot. So, I know parents are still wondering, “How do we actually motivate them to do their homework?” Dr. David Yeager (30:21): Well, there’s 380 pages in the book on this! But I’ll say there are different reasons why they don’t do their homework. Sometimes it’s because the homework feels too hard, and they fear failure. They worry that trying hard will just expose their lack of ability, which is the fixed mindset in action. Another reason could be time pressure. If the homework is due the next day, they feel overwhelmed—racing heart, sweaty palms. That’s anxiety. In one paper I published in Nature a few years ago, we reframed difficulty. We showed that difficulty actually means you’re doing something ambitious. It’s a sign you care about something important. And those physical symptoms—the racing heart, the sweaty palms—are actually your body mobilizing resources to help you perform better. Your body sweats to cool itself down, and that helps you think more clearly. Your heart races to get oxygenated blood to your brain, which helps you think faster. So, reframing anxiety as excitement can help. There are other reasons they don’t do homework, like not seeing the point, but I cover those in detail in the book, with practical tools. Dr. Cam (32:16): That’s great. So, let’s break it down into the three key takeaways for parents—things they can use to connect better and understand their teen. Dr. David Yeager (32:37): Sure. The three main takeaways I’d suggest are: Tone and word choice matter in tough conversations. The difference between autonomy-supportive language and controlling language is huge. For example, saying “You might consider” or “Have you thought about this?” is autonomy-supportive. Saying “You should do this” or “You must do this” is controlling. Tiny changes in how we phrase things can make a big difference. Align your argument with their values. Often, we try to get them to care about things that don’t resonate with them. But there are values they care about that can align with your goals. For example, instead of saying, “You need to do your homework so you can get into a good college,” say, “This homework will help you build skills that you’ll need to solve real-world problems.” You can connect what they’re doing to a value they care about. Give yourself do-overs when you mess up. We’re all raised in a culture that’s been getting teenagers wrong for a long time. Don’t expect yourself to get it perfect every time. But it’s not like a failure that you can’t recover from—there are endless do-overs. I’ve started telling my kids, “I didn’t handle that the way I should’ve. I should have asked you about your reasons for not doing it. Can you share that with me, so we can figure it out together?” When you do that, they often forget the initial frustration, and you’re able to work through things together. Those do-over conversations get easier and faster over time. Dr. Cam (35:54): And those are great things to model for our teens. When we do it, they’ll start doing it for us. Most of the time, that’s what we’ve been trying to get them to do anyway! When we take control of ourselves and how we show up, everything changes. I could talk to you for hours more—there’s so much more I want to ask you. This has been so enlightening and interesting. But how can people find you, and tell us about your book? Dr. David Yeager (36:25): The book is called 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People . If you care about or know anything about young people ages 10 to 25, this book is for you. We want to stop the miscommunications and frustration that cause so much tension between generations. It’s available at Barnes & Noble, Amazon, and Simon & Schuster. You can also get bulk discounts if you want to buy it for all your friends. I’m on LinkedIn, and you can find me through the University of Texas at Austin, where I have a professor website. Dr. Cam (37:06): What are you researching? Dr. David Yeager (37:10): I’ve always focused on kids in school—how they transition from middle school to high school, high school to college. Now, we’re thinking about the workforce. Are 20-year-olds entering workplaces where the managers know how to motivate them? And what about the 70% of kids who don’t go to four-year colleges? Do they have bosses who understand what young people need in terms of status and respect? Or are they stuck with bad jobs and bad managers? We’re looking at alternative pathways to the workforce, regardless of college education, and trying to help managers understand how to inspire and motivate young people. Dr. Cam (38:02): That’s amazing! And when they’re inspired, their employees thrive. Thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it. About the Show: The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam 8ZJHwifRB1GNYHRMdzvw…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

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How to Teach Teens Media Literacy & Critical Thinking with Carl Azuz 35:42

vor 13 Tagen35:42

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In this episode, former CNN anchor Carl Azuz joins Dr. Cam to explore how to teach teens media literacy and critical thinking in today's news-driven world. Carl shares strategies for helping teens navigate bias, develop independent opinions, and manage anxiety caused by negative news. They discuss the importance of fostering open conversations, promoting respectful discourse, and exposing teens to diverse perspectives to encourage empathy and tolerance. Learn how to help your teen separate fact from opinion, engage in thoughtful discussions, and gain a broader understanding of the world around them. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE How to teach your teen to fact-check and recognize bias in media The impact of the news on teen anxiety and how to alleviate it Why open, respectful conversations about tough topics are vital The importance of exposing your teen to multiple perspectives to broaden their views How to shift the focus from negative news to solutions and positive stories 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Teach teens to seek information from multiple sources to avoid bias and develop critical thinking. Engage in open conversations, modeling respectful discussions and encouraging them to form their own opinions. Highlight positive stories and solutions to counteract anxiety from negative news. Expose teens to a variety of news topics and perspectives to foster empathy and understanding. Focus on starting with the facts, then exploring different perspectives without bias. 🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫 🔔 Remember to hit Follow so you never miss another solution—packed episode! 🙌 RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE The World from A to Z with Carl Azuz EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 - Introduction and Carl Azuz’s Background 03:02 - Teaching Media Literacy & Critical Thinking 08:00 - Navigating Bias & Multiple Perspectives 13:04 - Open Conversations & Respectful Behavior 18:08 - Alleviating Anxiety & Fear in Teens 23:46 - Widening World Perspectives & Fostering Gratitude CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Carl Azuz Website: www.theworldfromatoz.com X (Twitter): @CarlAzuzCNN CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:02.039) Are your teens overwhelmed by today's chaotic news cycle? Do you wonder how to help them separate fact from opinion in a world full of bias? Today, we've got Carl Azuz, former CNN 10 anchor and new creator of the world from A to Z. Here to share how we can teach our teens media literacy, civil discourse, and critical thinking. So let's dive in. Carl, welcome to the show. Carl Azuz (00:26.594) Hey, it's fantastic being here with you, Dr. Cam. Thank you for having me on. Dr. Cam (00:30.161) Absolutely. let's start. You were on CNN for a while and then you have started the world from A to Z. Can you tell us a little bit about that first and how did that become in how did that come into reality? Carl Azuz (00:43.022) Absolutely, I had spent my entire career at CNN up until about the fall of 2022. I was gonna say October is probably around September, October of 2022. I was recruited to work there right out of college. I'd studied video and film production, not specifically broadcast news, though the University of Georgia had a strong broadcast news major you could focus on. But CNN was recruiting. And I went for it because I'd been familiar with the network. I'd watched at home as I was growing up and everything. And I'd started at the very entry level two days after I graduated college. In fact, Ted Turner, who founded CNN, spoke at my college graduation coincidentally, and I didn't attend it because I was moving back to Atlanta to work for that man two days later. So that was like my little Ted Turner story, but everybody had one in those days. that was up. Dr. Cam (01:32.621) that's funny. Carl Azuz (01:38.126) You know, that was my career. I got on the air there and spent about 15 years on the air hosting CNN student news. It rebranded to CNN 10 around 2017. Then left the network in the fall of 2022. I freelanced for a year working with Sunlight Homeschool Curriculum, working with the Poynter Institute as a media ambassador, media literacy being my focus and did some public speaking. And then in the fall of 23, we launched the world from A to Z. And it's such an exciting thing because We are independently produced. We are able to cover the news. can cover whatever's happening, whatever the story of the day might be, whether it's here or abroad. We want it to be very international, because after all, it's the world from A to Z. But we are able to do that without any sort of partisan bias. And that's really my priority when covering anything controversial, anything political. I don't want the show to lean to the left or the right. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but is my intention to be as perfect as we can in, know, treating multiple viewpoints the same way without prioritizing one side over the other, especially when it comes to politics. Dr. Cam (02:49.543) imagine that's incredibly hard right now because everything is so completely at opposite ends. So how do you even do that? Where do you find middle ground? I don't even know where it is anymore. Carl Azuz (03:03.566) It's a challenge and I'm grateful to have had, you know, so many years of experience when I was training to write. I remember I had a really good piece of advice. and this was, this is many years ago. This is before I was even on the air, but I remember that there was an executive who sat down with us and said, don't just make sure every story is balanced. Make sure they're weighted the same. If you give a minute, 20 seconds to one political party and 15 seconds to the other, you could argue that you had balance. had multiple perspectives.but you're not weighting them the same. And so in those days, the priority was to have balance and weight. And so those are things I look for, but you, I mean, you hit the nail on the head. I mean, these are incredibly divided times and you know, folks in media, and this isn't a knock on any one network. This is media wide. People are increasingly telling news through blue or red tinted glasses. And so for us, you're right, it is a challenge. It is more challenging to write. today than it was when I started in news because so much of this information is either one sided or it's favoring one political partisan viewpoint over another. And so for me, it's like, well, look, I have an audience of students. I don't assume they watch the news every day. So my first thing is what are the facts? Just glean the facts. What happened? Is there a new law? What is it? What does it say? And then after you've established what's going on, why people care about it, why it's making news, then we can get into the different perspectives if there's time to talk about, okay, well, this is why supporters of this new law say it's gonna be great. This is why opponents of this new law say it's gonna be awful. But to try to do that in a way that doesn't land on one side or the other, so often, if we're doing a story that has a political, if it's politically charged, if on Monday we cover this story and I say, well, Democrats say this, Republicans say this, If we revisit that on Wednesday or Thursday, I'll flip the order so that no one party always has the last word. So they're all part of the strategies to start first with the facts, then get into different perspectives, but do so in a way that, look, I don't want people to think I'm leaning one way or another. The only way I can get our audience to trust this show and to back up what we say when we say we're nonpartisan is to make sure we're representing those different viewpoints in a way that doesn't favor one. Dr. Cam (05:03.511) I think one of the things that's really hard too is we as adults and as parents have a very polarized view at this point, even if we think we're, I think I'm in the middle. I think I'm rational, but I know I'm not, right? I know for a fact that there's no way I am, right? You kind of pick your side, I guess. I feel like everything has a side, but then what you consume and how you consume it all is done in a way that's towards what you already believe. It's not something where we're open to understanding other sides, right? There's a big issue with that. So how is parents, when we are, even if we want to admit it or not, when we're biased, how do we teach our kids critical thinking and to come up with their own opinions, which again, I think is really hard for parents because they want their kids to have their opinions. There was a lot in there. How do we teach our kids to think for themselves in a situation where it's very difficult to think for ourselves? Carl Azuz (06:34.338) Well, I don't think there's, personally don't think there's something wrong in a parent sharing, you know, his or her opinion with the child. But that said, when it comes to media literacy, I always encourage our audience to have multiple sources and multiple credible sources. If you go to social media, you look at TikTok and Instagram, some of these folks are very gifted. Some of them, you know, could be journalists or reporters, but there are a lot of people, because anyone can say anything at any time on social media, there are a lot of people who are just, holding up a phone and spouting off a bunch of opinions or maybe some facts that line up on one side of an argument, but ignore the other. And they're becoming incredibly influential. So I'm always telling folks, look, it helps to start with major news organizations you have heard of because a lot of those big organizations, they do have reputations to protect and they want to, as those that are established, they want to make sure that their viewers, their readers, their consumers are trusting them. But to have multiple sources. Never let one organization be all your source for news because as we've talked about as reporters who are human beings increasingly put their opinion or their bias into their reporting, these different networks, it's very difficult at that level unless your whole network has just said, we're going to just explore this side, this is going to be our approach. It's very difficult for them to be nonpartisan or objective when so many people there aren't. And so I'm always encouraging people, young people, have multiple sources, multiple credible sources, get your news from different places, regardless of whether you personally lean left or right, read from both sides. Because oftentimes, the overlap is where the truth is. And to extend that to parents, I would just encourage them to say, This is why I believe what I do. I mean, I think if parents are transparent, I think that that helps too to say, look, I mean, we're seeing these news, we're seeing these different viewpoints. This is what one side says, this is what another side says. But, you know, I personally believe this and you can make up your own mind. But I think that if parents and teachers did that, that conversation alone can help a student, a young person think critically because they are hearing multiple viewpoints, at least initially without judgment. And I think that's key to understanding. Dr. Cam (09:00.437) That is a very difficult thing to do these days is listen without judgment. feel like judgment is just woven into the conversations at this point. so being able to separate that and wanting our kids to grow up without like we're raising them, I feel like in this very separated world and they're learning to think that way. So how do we have a conversation with them that opens that up and says, okay, here's some signs that we can look at to know that this is very biased or here's some things to think about if you're thinking this way that you could be stuck in a bias, right? So what are some things we can teach them and ourselves? Carl Azuz (09:40.749) It’s kind of using my show as an example. If we're covering a controversial story and you're hearing multiple perspectives, I think one thing that helps is to ask them, okay, what did you get out of that? What different opinions did you hear about this subject? I think basically just establishing the fact that there are different arguments, there are different opinions, just to talk about, just in a conversation, I think gets, you know, kind of the wheels turning among young people. mean, one thing on our show, try to, you we want to encourage critical thinking. We want people who watch our show to consume our show to say, look, there are different views on anything and every human idea, human invention, human law, it has pros and cons. There are side effects to the things that we come up with and the solutions that people come up with. So I think that by watching our show, they'll get a sense of that, whether it's something politically controversial or maybe it's just a new initiative to use AI technology to test local bacteria levels and waterways. Okay, but who's paying for that? Will that impact water bills of people around? Just think in terms of broader, bigger picture so that when you hear about a new invention, So often I've seen my colleagues in the media get caught up in all the pros. you know, I remember in the early days of self -driving cars and as the technology was developing, you know, there were people who'd get caught up and say, this is the solution. It'll eliminate human error and it'll be greener and cleaner. It'll get everybody where they want to go. And there won't be any accidents and all that stuff. And then as the reality has played out, first of all, it's taken a lot longer than anyone thought to develop that technology. And then of course we've seen in some places where they've gone whole hog on these, there have been some problems, even in parking lots with the self -driving cars themselves at the end of the day, looking to park themselves and struggling with that. So I'm not saying I'm looking to dump on new ideas, but I'm looking to provide what supporters say is going to be great about it, and then what's the critical angle so that they can have those conversations. And extending that to parents, extending that to teachers, to be able to say, what are you getting out of this story? Did you hear something that it sounds like Here's a problem and here's the one solution and everything's all sorted out. So let's just do that. Or did you hear, wait a minute, some people are saying, let's pump the brakes on this. There are other angles, whether it's the cost of something, whether it's the impact, the side effects it has, like, you you've seen the advertisements for new medications and they always have this list of side effects they give. Correct. Exactly. It's fast, but at least it's there. And so the hope is, you know, to have a show that gives those multiple perspectives that could be used as a jumping off point for parents to say, okay, look, you heard one side that said this, but you heard another side that said this, and if possible, you know, bringing a whole bunch of viewpoints on it. But I want people to have discussions and to think critically about it. And I don't want folks to depend on any one media organization, including my own, as their sole source for information. I think that as people consider different perspectives, especially if those are presented without judgment, we're able to have a conversation about it. And now, I mean, as you and I have discussed, Dr. Kam, I mean, people aren't looking to converse. They're looking to say, this is the reason I believe this, and I want to shut you down. And I'm like, that's not helping the divide we have. That's not going to help us democratically, where, you know, throughout the past, we've always seen whether it's legislation, a new government initiative or whatever, it often moves forward with compromise because neither party has figured all this stuff out. And so hopefully in a small way, our show could be a jumping off point for those discussions. Dr. Cam (13:30.267) I love that and I think it's so important to realize that we are looking at, we have to look at multiple sources. And I think there's a lot of distrust with the media these days too. Why do you think that is? Carl Azuz (13:45.494) It's fascinating, you're exactly right in saying that. There've been a couple studies over the past couple of years that say Americans' trust in media is either at or close to a record low. So we have seen those studies over and over again. Personally, I believe, having spent my whole career in broadcast media, that it's because opinions have infiltrated broadcasts. And I think to some extent, you've got, again, this isn't a knock on any one network. This is media wide, but I think to some extent, different organizations want to serve specific audiences. They want to say, okay, well, we know that more people on the left or on the right are watching us and they're paying for us. So let's, cover news. That's exciting to them. You look at what you're fed on social media. That's meant to get your click. And so if Facebook, for instance, or TikTok or whatever, if it's learning about you that you always are watching something that's a rant against one party, it wants to feed you that to get the click and to help with their advertising and to show their advertisers that, we can drive you traffic that you're looking for. That's just the world we live in. And so that's why I'm always just like, don't have just one source. Make sure you are looking to other places so you're getting those contrasting viewpoints. Dr. Cam (15:09.707) When let's go into a scenario, because I've heard this a lot, where the parents have one very strong point of view and the teenager has a very strong point of view that is different from the parent. And there's multiple reasons why. I mean, there's a generational thing. There's just a, you're my parent, so I want to disagree with you. This can cause a lot of tension in a household and a lot of shutting down of kids because we're like, you're wrong, right? You're just wrong. I'm the adult, you're wrong. So how do we have these conversations with our kids when they're bringing up situations or saying arguments that just make our skin crawl because it's so opposed to what we believe in? How do we have that conversation? Because this is true with anybody, right? But I think it's really important to be able to do this with our team because we can't just unfollow our team like we do with a lot of people on social media. So how do we have these conversations where they become more productive and teach them to think critically and not just trying to convince them that we're right and they're wrong? Carl Azuz (16:15.758) think first and foremost, it's have the discussion, talk to the kids. mean, like there were a number of studies. I mean, when I was with CNN for a while, I did education reporting in addition to hosting CNN student news and CNN 10. And one conclusion that we saw in so many of these studies, whether it was, you know, risky behavior by teens or teens skipping school or teens dropping out or whatever, one thing we saw in all of these studies, I became a broken record, I was repeating myself, was that those young people who said their parents wouldn't really care either way were far more likely, always by double digits, to engage in the risky behavior, the controversial behavior or whatever it was. Whereas those students who said, my mom, my dad would totally freak out if they caught me doing this, were by double digits less likely. So what that taught me is that parents, teachers, you are influential, you have more influence than you might think you do, even if the kid, know, is contrarian, if we want to borrow a diplomatic term or if, you know, they're just antagonistic. You do have that influence. So I think first of all, is to have those conversations. Don't think, well, you know, so and so will just shut down or that's just how things are. And so I'm not even going to bring it up or I'm going to snipe at the child or the child's going to constantly snipe at me. So first, keep the lines of communication open. Second, I think to have a civil discussion in a way that says, listen, I understand where you're coming from. I understand maybe you've heard this or maybe they process, they're processing something they heard at school on TikTok, whatever it might be. And to say, listen, I understand why you would think that, but I want you to think bigger picture here because there is another viewpoint and that viewpoint says A, B and C, or there are side effects to making a law that says everybody must do this. And those side effects include D, E and F. And I think that conversations like that, especially if they're kept civil, help the child understand, okay, look, dad's not gonna agree with me on this, but I kind of see why other people are saying what they do. At least they were able to have that conversation. And so I think that, you know, that's an important starting point. And I think that goes beyond the parent kid relationship. I'd like to see a classroom, even if 29 students line up on one side of a controversy and one lines up on the other. I would hope that they could have a civil discussion at the end. Maybe nobody's opinion has changed. That's okay. But to also be able to see, I don't agree with you, dude. I can't see things the way you see them, but I understand where you're coming from. And I don't need to hate you because we're different in that viewpoint. Dr. Cam (18:57.017) How do we get there? I think we're modeling not that as adults. We're not modeling that behavior. And to teach it to our kids is a difficult thing when we're not modeling it. So I think being able to listen to somebody else's without feeling the need to convince, because I think we're stuck in convincing mode, right? So how do we even as parents listen to our teens' perspective? Because our team may have points that we don't know about because they're listening to other resources. I mean, they're tapped in too. Carl Azuz (19:30.147) Yes, sure they are. they have so it's not, you know, we're not in an era anymore where you have the family gathered around the evening news for half an hour and then discussing it. It's like people are being flooded with information from the moment they wake up and look at a screen. And so you're exactly right. The parents and teens are dealing with that. But again, I mean, I think that, you know, it comes back to what you're saying about modeling the behavior and there are a number of health reports that we've aired on the world from A to Z that discuss the importance of modeling behavior. you know, it's like, it starts with parents. It's fine for you to consume what you want to consume and have your opinion. But if all your child hears is you grumbling about a political party, can't believe they're doing this, you know, grumbling about a candidate all the time. Yeah, I mean, I think that that's It's not going to encourage the conversations that I think that folks need to be having in a civil way. So I totally agree. think that it does start with modeling that behavior. It does start with sitting down and just having conversations and saying, look, this is where I stand on this. And this is why, because of what, you know, what I grew up or what I saw are because of you and the future and all these other things, but it's all right if you disagree, but just understand that there are other opinions and try to respect them. I think if adults model respect, I think kids are more likely to be susceptible to it and hopefully model that themselves, hopefully have that themselves. But to respect the fact that there are other viewpoints, I think you're right, I think it starts with us. Dr. Cam (21:11.839) I want to hit another thing, Carl, that comes up a lot is, I mean, there's a lot of really horrific stories in the news. And like you just said, we're bombarded by it from everywhere and almost makes it sound like this is happening all the time everywhere, right? And so how do we help our kids? Because I've seen this a lot where teenagers now are far more impacted by what's going on in the news than we were growing up when we didn't have, you know, we didn't, had television and we just didn't watch it. And now it's like, you can't even avoid it. How do we help our kids who are actually struggling from anxiety and fear from all these stories that they're being bombarded by? Carl Azuz (21:56.738) That is an excellent question. The short answer again, I believe it's so important for parents and students, teens, children, whatever it might be, to converse, to talk about it. Open those lines of communication. Let them know if there's something that's bugging you, if there's something you're struggling with, talk to me about it. Feel like you can talk to me or another parent, a trusted aunt, whoever it might be. But first off, keep those lines of communication open. I think that's so important. And that's what we've seen. In news, mean, I'm not a psychologist, but we've reported on so many of these psychological studies and they're always like converse and be able to have civil discussions with students. I think that's first and foremost. Another thing too is look at the news sources. If you have a highly partisan organization that's trying to drive people to, and I mean, they do this in the left and the right. So I'm not like picking on one side or another, but they'll try to drive people. to fear and get out there and vote or else they're gonna take away your right to do anything. mean, there's so much of that, so much fear mongering in mass media that I think, you one thing that we try to do on our show is, okay, you know, like Mr. Rogers used to say, look for the helpers. And I'm sorry if I've misquoted that, but the general sense is there. But to find out what's being done to remedy these different things. I remember, you know, when I was reporting on the early days of COVID. I mean, we were, we didn't want to terrify our audience. I my audience in news is very unique and we're looking at middle school students, high school students, it's international. And so I don't want to terrify them. I want to give them a sense of the fact that yeah, there are problems in the world, but there are people working on those problems. If it's big scale geopolitical upheaval, it might help them to hear, there are other countries involved trying to get Russia and Ukraine to have peace talks, Israel and Hamas to have peace talks. But also when it comes to some of these stories, whether it's a new disease that's spreading or something like that, I'm not looking to be a fear monger in this. I'm looking to give them knowledge of the fact that, look, there are people who are finding solutions. There are new medicines being tested out, new treatments being tested out. Some people stay at home, drink a lot of water and that's helping. Whatever it might be, I wanna make sure to include the fact that there are efforts being taken to address the problems they see. And hopefully that'll alleviate a little bit of that anxiety. I'm not saying that we should put trust in every solution that people have instantly as the one size fits all thing. But I think it's important for students to know when they hear about bad things happening, even if it's a plane crash because of a technical problem, what's being done about it? What does the company say? Is the government investigating? Are there efforts being made to solve this and keep it from happening again. I think hearing that, as we always try to include on the world from A to Z, is something that can help with that anxiety. Dr. Cam (24:55.343) I love that Carl and I think that is such a great way to shift it from blame, know, the blame and the worry and it's this person's fault and that person's fault and if they had done that too, how are we solving it? Which then it's even can go a little step further and it's like, well, how can we, what can the two of us, me and you, what can we do? Is there anything we can do about it? Is there any groups that we can support? Is there anyone we can donate to? Is there anything? And now it turns into this proactive, have some control over something and I can do something towards the solution rather than just yelling at somebody that I think is to blame, which does nothing, right? And now I've got, I love that. That really creates that critical thinking. What else have I not asked that parents need to know about talking to kids about the news and being literate with the media? Carl Azuz (25:52.31) I mean, one thing I just, I always underscore is to just make sure that you are having those conversations. You do, as I mentioned, have more influence in so many cases than you think you do. And, you know, to encourage your student, look, if you see something on the news that troubles you, we can talk about it, but look for different perspectives on it. Look to see how different major news networks are covering topics. And one thing I think that's kind of fun to do, especially when it comes to major news networks, and this is, you know, whether it's CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, Fox News, whatever it might be, if you go online during a slow news day, there's not one big overarching international story, right? On a day when there's not a lot going on in the world, if you go online and you just click all the homepages, you can tell so much about these different news organizations and the stories that they prioritize tells you so much about where their leanings might be, where their priorities might be, what stories that they think people really ought to care about when there's not a big central event. And I think that that can help with students understanding students' media literacy, that these different networks bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table. I think that those are fascinating things. And I also think when it comes to news, and this is one thing I love about working on the world from A to Z is that it's not all politics. It's not all tragedy and war and gloom and doom and missing planes and horrible things. Yes. Well, in many cases it does. think, you I would argue for a student audience, you know, especially where teachers are the gatekeepers in a homeschool environment, parents are the gatekeepers. I would argue that they do want a variety. They want young people to see that there is a breadth. Dr. Cam (27:25.495) But that's what sells. Carl Azuz (27:42.7) to news that includes sometimes the news is some dude setting a Guinness World Record by bungee jumping off a bridge to dip a biscuit in tea. I mean, that was an actual Guinness World Record I reported on years ago. And so sometimes goofy things like that make news. Sometimes there's a dog that goes viral because it can't stop sneezing. And so like, you know, that's fun to look at. Sometimes there are events, you know, we've recovered a fashion show in a slum in Nigeria where the designer is like, I wanna open people's minds. I grew up in this slum. And now I wanna open people's minds up to the broader world. As a fashion designer, I'm able to have an outfit on the back of someone in a far flung place. And yet I'm showing that off right here in the slum where I grew up. We've had so many different international components and slice of life, cultural components that give students a sense of it's a big, broad, colorful world. And there are a lot of people doing things that might not directly impact laws in the United States and might not directly impact what you drive or the doctor you see or how you vote or whatever that might be, but they show you how people are coping. They show you how people are celebrating. They show you how people are interacting with each other. I think that's so important for students to see to have a well -rounded view of news and media in general. And also to kind of know that, you know, there are so many things going on outside our own bubble. And I think it's important for them to see that, that in some places, you know, well, there many countries where people aren't allowed to vote, or if they do, it's kind of rigged to begin with, okay, how are they coping? What are they doing? Do they have things they celebrate or festivals or, you know, events that they can get involved in? I think that a show that portrays all of that helps students just to kind of get outside their own community and their own locked mindset that we build around ourselves and to have hope. Dr. Cam (29:41.525) Yeah. I love that. And it gives them an opportunity to just widen their world perspective too, which makes us have more tolerance towards people that are different than us. And I think that's extremely important too, to see that and to balance because we do, if we just looked at the news and the stories, it would sound like the world is just shot and everyone is evil or weird. And that's scary, right? Instead of going, there's actually, that's a small percentage, hopefully, of what's going on. We're just focused on that, but there's so much more. Carl. Carl Azuz (30:14.168) Dr. Cam, I you raise a good point. And one thing I would add to that to kind of illustrate what we're talking about is in today's show, we had a story about Ukraine, obviously Ukraine and Russia being involved in a full scale war since 2022. And we can cover that big headline and many major media organizations will major on that headline, major on the violence, destruction and death and that sort of thing. We had a slice of life piece where Yes, we acknowledge that this has been going on and why it started and what different people say about it, but then it goes into students attending school underground. And what is that like? How are they coping? And obviously, how do you, there are no windows in the schools. They painted all the walls bright colors. They have teachers focusing and teachers teaching students, look, we have to do the best we can with what we have each day. This is it. This is a lesson. Let's focus on this. Let's learn. Let's get this education, despite the fact. that there might be bombs falling nearby above ground. It's an underground school. think just seeing that, seeing how people are coping in the worst of circumstances can hopefully inspire us in much better circumstances here in the United States where things are generally peaceful outside our doors. I think stories like that can make people grateful can help people see how others are coping, how other people, their lives are going on. They're still managing to get an education despite tremendous adversity they're facing in places like Ukraine or Afghanistan or anywhere else. And I think that just seeing that helps students get outside, maybe their comfort zone a little bit, but also, you know, the perspective they have every single day that, know what, maybe we should be grateful or this is better here or, you know, Obviously we're mad about all these politics and all these other things. There are some people who have it worse and yet are still getting an education like I am. I think that does something for a student's perspective. Dr. Cam (32:14.999) It's so important to get a perspective like that too, because I think it's very easy to compare yourself to the person right next to you and you forget that there's so much more going on in the world where even the person next to you, you've got so much more than so many other people. And I think it's hard to get that perspective. Especially again, when you're following on social media and everyone has more than you, you start feeling like you have nothing, right? That's hard. Carl Azuz (32:42.69) Right, absolutely. We are in two places. Our homepage is worlda -z .org. And that's where I think the bulk of our viewership is at worlda -z .org. We encourage people, you you can sign up for a daily email that gives you a newsletter. It just gives you a preview of what's coming in each day's show. Any announcements we have, like if we're off the air for Labor Day or something like that, we let folks know. So that's where you can watch the show. You can sign up for the newsletter. You can request a shout out for your class. Dr. Cam (32:43.691) So how do we find your show? Carl Azuz (33:12.938) And then we're also on YouTube at youtube .com slash at the world A to Z. You need that little ad in there, but it's youtube .com slash at the world A to Z. And that's where people can also subscribe and watch there. And if they subscribe, they'll get the little notification when each new show posts. But that's where, you know, we'd love to see you. We'd love to get your feedback, which you can send us through our homepage. And we love to hear how people are watching and consuming the world from A to Z. Dr. Cam (33:39.081) I love it. I'm going to show that to my daughter who's actually a news junkie. She tells me what's going on in the world because I am not a news junkie. But doing that, but even having something where at the dinner table you just say, hey, what interesting story came up. That's not like who got the most strangest, bizarre or happy story or anything like that would be fun and kind of teach kids to dig a little bit deeper too than just the headline. Carl Azuz (34:06.442) Exactly. One of the most gratifying pieces of feedback I've received is that, you know, when students are watching our show, parents will come to us and say, my kid can discuss the news at the dinner table. My kid brought up an event that happened in some far flung place that we were able to discuss at the dinner table. That is an incredibly fulfilling thing that I'm grateful to have heard more than once. And I You know, I'm excited to work on a show, grateful to work on a show like The World from A to Z that allows me to bring that to young people. Dr. Cam (34:39.637) That's great and such a better topic than how was school today. No kid wants to answer that question. Carl, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it. Carl Azuz (34:44.11) It's a start! It's a start! Carl Azuz (34:53.89) Dr. Cam, it's been a pleasure. Thank you and thank you for everything you're doing to help make things better. ABOUT THE SHOW The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #ParentingTeens #MediaLiteracy #CriticalThinking #DrCamCaswell…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

1
Teen Self-Doubt: How to Help High-Achieving Teens Build Confidence 40:24

vor 16 Tagen40:24

40:24

Is your high-achieving teen secretly battling self-doubt? 😔 Mental health expert Jason Phillips joins Dr. Cam—The Teen Translator—in this powerful episode to decode the hidden struggles of perfectionist teens. Learn how to support your teen without adding pressure, embrace failure as growth, and balance achievement with well-being. Get actionable strategies to build their confidence and foster a positive self-perception, as Jason and Dr. Cam unpack self-doubt, academic pressure, burnout, and teen anxiety. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE Why embracing failure might be the best thing you can do for your teen’s growth. How you can support your teen’s drive for success without adding to their stress. What role parents play in teaching healthy self-care and boundaries to their teens. 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Failure is a Key Part of Growth: Allowing teens to experience failure in a supportive environment helps build resilience and emotional strength. Model Healthy Boundaries: Parents need to show their teens how to balance work and rest to prevent burnout and foster healthy habits. Validate, Don’t Solve: Instead of offering solutions right away, parents should listen and validate their teen’s feelings, which builds trust and connection. Give Teens Agency: Empowering teens by encouraging them to make decisions and advocate for themselves promotes independence and self-confidence. Maintain Your Own Identity: Parents should avoid losing themselves in their role as caregivers and should continue pursuing their own interests and well-being for a healthy family dynamic. 🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫 🔔 Remember to hit Follow so you never miss another solution—packed episode! 🙌 RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Free Confidence Guide: stepstoconfidence.com Podcast: Peace and Prosperity Podcast (available on Apple, Spotify, and other podcast platforms) CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Jason Phillips, LCSW Website: jasonlphillips.com Instagram: @JPhillipsMSW CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell EPISODE CHAPTERS: 00:00 Understanding Self-Doubt in High-Achieving Teens 05:09 The Role of Failure in Teen Growth and Resilience 10:38 Balancing Achievement, Rest, and Mental Health for Teens 15:06 Building Teen Confidence and Self-Worth: Practical Strategies 20:11 The Pressure on High-Achieving Parents and Its Impact on Teens 25:34 Navigating Parental Involvement in High-Achieving Teens’ Lives 30:20 Modeling Healthy Behaviors for Teens: Leading by Example 35:39 Encouraging Positive Self-Perception and Self-Esteem in Teens About the Show: The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam: Welcome back, parents! Today, we're diving into how to support high-achieving teens through self-doubt and burnout. Many teens push themselves to the limit but still feel like they aren't measuring up, even though their parents see their amazing potential. It's frustrating when parents try to help, but their words seem to have the opposite effect. To help us unpack this, I’ve invited Jason Phillips, a therapist and mental health expert who specializes in guiding high achievers to overcome self-doubt and build real confidence. Jason has worked with Fortune 500 companies, law firms, and universities, and today he’s here to help us understand how to support our teens through perfectionism. Welcome, Jason! Jason Phillips: Thanks for having me, Dr. Cam. I'm excited to have this conversation! Dr. Cam: So, Jason, tell us about your journey. How did you end up focusing on helping high achievers? Jason Phillips: It really happened organically. After graduating from the University of Michigan, I worked with military populations at the Ann Arbor VA and later served as the clinic chief at Fort Bragg. Over time, I noticed that corporate executives and leaders were drawn to my approach because I specialize in helping them overcome anxiety. That led me to helping high achievers break free from self-doubt and build confidence. Dr. Cam: That’s amazing. It’s so ironic that high achievers often struggle with self-doubt. From the outside, they seem so confident, yet many of them are riddled with anxiety. I see this a lot with the teens I work with, too. They’re getting straight A’s and excelling, but they still feel like they’re not enough. Their parents tell me that no matter how much they express their love and support, it doesn’t seem to help. So, where do you think this drive for achievement comes from? Jason Phillips: A lot of it comes from external pressures—parents, teachers, peers. I can relate to that pressure myself. I was a high achiever growing up, constantly pushed to excel. While straight A's were celebrated, they came with their own anxiety, because I felt like I couldn’t ever drop below that standard. External pressures, even from well-meaning sources like teachers and family, can make teens feel like they have to be perfect. That’s often where the self-doubt begins. Dr. Cam: That’s such an important point. Parents want to encourage their teens and help them live up to their potential, but the way they say things can sometimes have the opposite effect. How can parents motivate their teens without adding pressure? Jason Phillips: The key is to make room for failure. When we constantly tell our teens how great they are, they might think anything less than perfection means they’re failing. Allowing them to fail is essential, as it helps them see that mistakes are just part of the learning process. They need to understand that not being perfect doesn’t mean they’re not enough. Dr. Cam: I love that. It’s one thing to allow failure, but I try to encourage my teen to embrace it. The idea is that failing at something difficult means you’re pushing beyond your comfort zone, which is where true growth happens. So, it’s not about being perfect; it’s about challenging yourself and learning from those challenges. What do you think about that approach? Jason Phillips: Absolutely. Embracing failure is one of the best ways to help teens develop resilience. By pushing themselves outside their comfort zone, they’ll encounter setbacks, but that’s where growth truly occurs. It’s about focusing on what you tried, not just whether you succeeded or failed. Dr. Cam: Exactly! And that mindset shift can make all the difference. Thanks so much for sharing this insight, Jason. It’s such a helpful perspective for parents trying to support their teens. Jason Phillips: I don't know if you're into exercise or weightlifting, Dr. Cam, but there's this term where you'll ask, how many reps are we doing? Ten, twenty? And sometimes it's until failure, which means pushing yourself until you can't anymore. Jason Phillips: Because we know that's when the growth happens. It's not in staying in a comfort zone. I want you to push yourself to failure until you just can't do anymore. Jason Phillips: And then we've got kids who are constantly pushing themselves and never feel like it's enough. How do we balance that, where it's okay to be just okay and not amazing at everything? How do we communicate that without making them feel like we just think they're okay? Jason Phillips: It goes back to balance. As much as we want to push to failure, we also need time for rest. We can't just go, go, go, or we'll get exhausted and burned out. We need to carve out time to relax, watch TV, play video games, or sleep in. Jason Phillips: Make sure you're not just filling your calendar with things you have to do. You can put so much on there and never feel done. Dr. Cam: I want to emphasize that because I see a lot of parents who don't understand why their kids feel that way, but when you look at their schedules, they're packed. Every time the kids try to relax or scroll through TikTok, they hear, "You're being unproductive." Dr. Cam: You can't do that. If you have time for that, you have time for this. You should be doing this, doing that. We have this belief that we need to be productive 24/7, and that’s exhausting. It leads to burnout. We need to prioritize sleeping in and taking naps. Why is that so hard for us to prioritize? Jason Phillips: For high achievers, it’s almost like feeling guilty—what am I missing or not doing? You're good at so many things, but just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. We need to incorporate rest, too. Parents need to be mindful and let kids pick a couple of things, but not everything. Jason Phillips: Parents really have to model that same confidence and boundaries. If mom and dad are constantly stretched thin, saying yes to everything, how can we expect our kids to do otherwise? When we model it, it's much easier for them to follow. Dr. Cam: Yeah, modeling is huge. And when we see our kids doing different things, we often need to look in the mirror and ask, "What are we modeling?" Often parents say, "My teen is amazing, but they have no self-esteem. They think they're not good at anything." How do we help them see their value when anything we say gets an eye roll? Jason Phillips: One thing I encourage is asking your teen what they could help someone else do. How could they mentor someone younger? That often builds genuine self-confidence. The second thing is to give less advice. Instead, listen more to figure out where the disconnect is. Dr. Cam: That’s so important and one of the hardest things for parents because we have so much wisdom to share, and we finally have an audience—but they don’t want to hear it. It’s frustrating. Dr. Cam: Instead of getting frustrated, be thrilled that your kid feels confident enough to figure it out on their own. That’s a plus! So, what do you think about asking your teen for advice? Jason Phillips: Yeah, it’s a huge plus. It builds trust. When you ask your teen for advice, it shows them that their thoughts are valued. It lets them know they have something insightful to add to the conversation. Teens probably have a lot of wisdom we’re not tapping into, and by listening to their advice and implementing it, it does wonders for them. Dr. Cam (15:06.54) The ability to not have to be right all the time as a parent is a real strength. I talk to kids who say, "My parents would rather die than admit they're wrong." That behavior is modeling the very fear our kids have: that you have to win. Jason Phillips (15:39.395) It gives them a voice. When we listen to our kids and ask for their input and follow what they say, it lets them know that what they say matters. Dr. Cam (16:07.726) Yeah, that is so key, and we don't have to agree with it. Jason Phillips (16:12.051) No, we don’t have to. It can start small—asking, "What do you want to eat?" or "What movie should we watch?" Not always having to control everything. Dr. Cam (16:22.595) Yeah, giving them a lot of agency is really important. Parents often say, "If I don't micromanage, they won’t do as well, and that hurts their self-esteem." But when you put the responsibility back on them, they understand they have to do things for themselves. Jason Phillips (16:59.755) It’s about building confidence. I remember my mom telling me to ask the teacher for help or ask a waiter questions. At the time, it was nerve-wracking, but it helped me advocate for myself. Dr. Cam (18:08.974) That's something really big with my daughter too. She has always been part of the conversation and voiced her thoughts, which has helped her value what she says. Jason Phillips (18:24.503) Right here. Dr. Cam (18:37.512) She’s very good at advocating for herself now. It took time, but it’s made a difference. When we say stepping back will hurt their self-confidence, it’s managing our own fears about how they’re feeling. Jason Phillips (19:12.683) Right. When you let them fail and be themselves, you're not coddling them but allowing them to learn on their own. Dr. Cam (19:50.862) Let’s talk about high-achieving teens and parents. There's a lot of pressure on parents to be high achievers too. Jason Phillips (20:11.413) Parents are often juggling too much—work, clubs, and kids’ extracurriculars—and then feel exhausted. They may not realize they’re not modeling what they want for their kids. Dr. Cam (20:14.894) What do you see with that? Jason Phillips (20:40.885) They don’t set boundaries and end up feeling burned out. When you look at their lives, they’re involved in everything—president of clubs, treasurer in groups. But they don’t have time to give 100%. They can’t model balance when they’re overwhelmed. Dr. Cam (21:42.358) Right. And parents often say, "My kid won’t do it," when it comes to sharing responsibilities. That’s another topic, but it’s important. Jason Phillips (21:54.903) Absolutely. Dr. Cam (22:10.378) There’s this belief that parents need to push, push, push, and kids should adopt that mentality too. Where does that mentality come from? Jason Phillips (22:27.287) It’s not healthy. Kids can only handle so much, and when they push back, they may act out. As adults, we can manage our emotions better, but kids don't always have the tools to do that. Dr. Cam (23:24.856) Right, we can’t make up for our past by pushing our kids to do what we didn’t get to do at their age. Jason Phillips (23:25.259) Exactly. Kids shouldn’t be expected to live out our unfulfilled dreams. Dr. Cam (24:01.046) It’s unfair because parents are taking over their kids’ lives and not letting them live their own. Jason Phillips (24:16.405) I spoke to an adult who said their parent was so overbearing with their golf that it hurt their experience. Parents were living out their dreams through their kids, and it wasn’t healthy. Dr. Cam (24:56.27) Yeah, it's tough to know where to draw the line between being involved and overstepping. How do we balance caring and supporting without taking over their lives? Jason Phillips: You can show up, but you don't have to show out. Be present for your kid’s activities, listen when they share their day, whether it's good or bad, but don't try to solve all of their issues. Overstepping happens when you try to be a part of their team or get overly involved in things at school. We’re the adults—we’ve lived through our teenage years, and they’re different from now. Step back and give them space. If you smother them, it could cause problems, even bullying. Dr. Cam: Yeah, it’s really tough. I think when we’re high achievers ourselves, we tend to extend that expectation to our kids. As parents, we see their successes as ours. So, if our kids aren’t high-achieving, straight-A, go-go-go kids, how do we not feel like we’re not pushing them hard enough? Jason Phillips: I always tell people to run your own race and stay in your own lane. Think of a track race—everyone has their own lane. If you’re looking over at someone else, you can trip up or slow down. Focus on what’s in front of you, and feel good about it. Comparing yourself and reflecting on what you didn’t do gets you into dangerous territory. Stay in your lane, run your race, and be proud of it. Dr. Cam: Yeah, staying in your lane—not just with other parents, but with your teen too. Let them run their race and cheer them on, but let them do their own thing, right? Jason Phillips: Exactly. Think back to when we were younger and our parents would comment on our music or clothes. We’d get upset, thinking they were outdated. Now, here we are, and sometimes I feel like I don’t get the music anymore. My wife teases me about it, and I admit, I’m outdated. Dr. Cam: Right, and that’s the thing. When we’re focused on what our teens are doing, we can lose focus on how we’re showing up for them. Jason Phillips: Yeah, sometimes we focus too much on living through our kids. We forget that we also need to live our own lives. When we’re confident in our careers, relationships, and identity outside of being parents, we model that for our kids. They’ll see that being a parent doesn’t mean sacrificing everything else in life. Some parents lose their social life, prayer life, and sense of self once they have kids. That’s not healthy for either the parent or the child. Dr. Cam: Right, kids don’t want you around all the time. If you’re overbearing, you risk creating an enmeshed relationship. Jason Phillips: Exactly. Kids need their space, too. Dr. Cam: Yeah, and one of the best things is when my daughter tells me, “I’m so proud of you, mom, for what you’re doing.” It’s a reminder that we’re both cheering each other on, doing our own things, rather than being too enmeshed. Jason Phillips: Yeah, it’s great when both of you are thriving in your own ways. Dr. Cam: Right, and some parents might feel they don’t have time for their own activities. But I always tell them: stop micromanaging your teen and spend some of that time doing something fun for yourself. You’ll enjoy it, and your teen will appreciate it too. Jason Phillips: Exactly. Pick one thing you used to love doing—whether it’s dancing, bowling, or reading—and do it. Show your teen that you have interests outside of them. You’ll become more interesting to them, and they’ll see you as a well-rounded person, not just a parent. Dr. Cam: Yeah, it makes you more interesting, and they’ll want to talk to you more because you have something unique to share. Kids don’t want to talk about their stuff with parents all the time—it gets tough. Dr. Cam: One last question. If a teen is constantly putting themselves down—saying things like, “I can’t do this, I’m not good at this”—how do we respond as parents? Jason Phillips: Yeah, that’s tough. Jason Phillips (32:56.663): Before we start giving them positive affirmations, I want us to build a stronger connection with that teen. You want them to be able to really open up to you and trust you. You want to be that safe space. Let me share the LOVE acronym. If a teen is constantly putting themselves down, first, listen. The L is for listen. Listen to what they're saying because there may be some disconnect. If they say they're not good at something, you can highlight all the awards and trophies, but you can’t do that first without listening. Be objective. Don’t put so much pressure on what they're saying. Don’t judge whether it’s bad or good. Listen objectively and have a neutral space. The V is for validate. You want to validate their feelings and thoughts. If they feel a certain way, don’t try to immediately take it away or say it's nonsense. Maybe they’re having a hard day or feeling insecure. Validate that with empathy. Once you do that, they’ll be in a place where they can be more vulnerable, and then you can point out what they’re missing. They might be putting a lot of pressure on themselves and thinking they're not enough. Dr. Cam (33:43.278): That’s so key. A lot of parents immediately respond with, "What do you mean? Yes, you are! You can do this. Look at all the awards!" They’re trying to give evidence that it’s not true. But what happens is they completely invalidate what the teen is saying, which often leads to the teen thinking, "You have to say that because you're my parent." If your teen says something like that or rolls their eyes, it’s a sign you need to go to the LOVE approach. Jason Phillips (34:52.022): Exactly. If someone immediately tries to combat what I say, I'll get defensive. For example, if you tell me, "Jason, that shirt is the best shirt I've ever seen," I’d probably say, "No, it's not. I have better ones." High achievers are often not great at accepting compliments. We point out our imperfections. Dr. Cam (35:28.396): That brings up another point. Many people mistake humility for putting themselves down. We're taught that the proper way to talk about ourselves is to put ourselves down. This creates a cycle of low self-esteem. How do we help teens see the good in themselves without making them feel like they’re becoming egotistical? Jason Phillips (36:35.413): Two things I would suggest: First, understand where it’s coming from. For instance, if you hear your child say something like, "I'm so stupid" or "I keep messing up," ask them, "What makes you say that?" Help them walk through how they arrived at that conclusion. Don’t dismiss their feelings; instead, try to understand the reasoning behind it. Secondly, encourage them to practice saying good things about themselves. It’s like an elevator pitch where they get to talk about themselves in a positive way. We're often uncomfortable because we’ve never been taught to do it. We're so used to others speaking highly of us, but we haven’t taken the time to say something positive about ourselves. It's not bragging; it's just being honest. Dr. Cam (38:27.426): That’s so important. Instead of saying, "I'm proud of you," I say, "You must be so proud of yourself." The focus is on them feeling proud of their own achievements, not just making me proud. This helps them take ownership of their success. Jason Phillips (38:33.495): It’s the idea of, "I want you to take care of you for me, and I’ll take care of me for you." Dr. Cam (39:03.671): That’s a great way to end. Parents, that's beautiful advice. Jason, how can people find you? Jason Phillips (39:13.089): They can find me on all social platforms at @JPhillipsMSW. My website is jasonlphillips.com. I also have a free confidence guide at stepstoconfidence.com, and they can listen to my podcast, the Peace and Prosperity podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you listen to podcasts. Dr. Cam (39:25.792): Thank you so much for joining us today, Jason. Jason Phillips (39:47.72): Thanks, Dr. Cam. Appreciate you having me. #HighAchievingTeens #TeenConfidence…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

1
How to Support Your LGBTQ+ Teen with Pride and Compassion 44:29

vor 23 Tagen44:29

44:29

In this heartfelt and insightful episode, Dr. Cam sits down with Heather Hester, founder of Chrysalis Mama and host of the "Just Breathe" podcast, to discuss the journey of parenting an LGBTQ+ teen. Heather shares her personal experience with her son Connor’s coming out at 16 and how it inspired her mission to support parents of LGBTQ+ teens. In this conversation, Heather offers valuable advice on how to navigate your emotions, avoid common pitfalls, and create a safe, inclusive space for your teen. What You'll Learn in This Episode: Why your LGBTQ+ teen is often already sure of their identity when they come out—and what that means for you as a parent. The #1 question you should never ask your LGBTQ+ teen (and what to ask instead). How to support your LGBTQ+ teen through their coming out journey without unintentionally causing harm. Why your teen’s social media activity isn’t “influencing” their identity, but rather helping them find community and support. The importance of processing your own emotions with trusted friends or professionals, rather than relying on your teen for emotional support. Top 5 Takeaways for Parents of Teens The most important thing parents can do is provide unconditional love and support, making home a safe space for their LGBTQ+ teen. Parents should process their own emotions and questions with professionals or trusted friends, not with their child. Social media isn't "influencing" teens to be LGBTQ+; it's helping them find community and understand themselves better. When you make mistakes (like using wrong pronouns), acknowledge them simply and move on without making a big deal about it. Focus on who your child is as a whole person rather than fixating on their LGBTQ+ identity Enjoying the Show? Help others discover this episode by leaving a rating and review! Your feedback means the world to me and allows us to bring even more valuable insights to parents like you. Don’t forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫 Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Podcast: Just Breathe, Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen (available on all podcast platforms) PFLAG: https://pflag.org/ Trevor Project: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ GLAAD: https://glaad.org/ Connect with the Guest: Heather Hester: Website: https://chrysalismama.com Instagram: @chrysalismama TikTok: @chrysalismama Connect with the host: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell About the Show: The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam Chapters 00:00 Navigating the Challenges of Raising LGBTQ+ Teens 02:59 The Journey of Acceptance and Support 05:58 Understanding the Coming Out Process 09:05 The Importance of Unconditional Love 12:02 Addressing Parental Concerns and Misconceptions 15:03 The Role of Social Media in Identity Formation 17:51 Creating a Safe Space for LGBTQ+ Teens 21:03 The Path to Resilience and Acceptance 22:54 The Importance of Self-Education 25:04 Navigating Identity and Relationships 28:50 Understanding Loss and Expectations 30:32 Fluidity in Identity 33:14 Challenging Social Norms 36:01 Embracing Authenticity 39:12 Letting Go of Control 42:17 Supporting Resilience FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:02.402) Welcome back, parents. Raising a teen is tough, but raising an LGBTQ+ teen comes with its own unique challenges. How do you create a safe, supportive space where your teen feels seen, heard, and empowered? Today, I'm joined by Heather Hester, founder of Chrysalis Mama and host of the Just Breathe podcast. With two LGBTQ+ kids of her own, Heather understands the importance of showing up with love, unlearning bias, and embracing the messy journey of parenting with pride. Hi, Heather. Heather Hester (00:44.509) Hi, it's great to be here. Thank you for having me. Dr. Cam (00:47.016) Of course! I love starting with a backstory. What inspired you to support parents of LGBTQ+ children? Heather Hester (01:03.539) The short answer is having one, then two of my own. When my first came out, it was eight years ago—time flies. He was 16, the oldest of four, and we had no idea it was coming. The first 18 months were really rocky for him and for us. We struggled to find resources and support. Once we got through that, I realized that there were thousands of other families going through the same thing. I had to do something about it. So, I started a website to share the resources I found, like PFLAG, the Trevor Project, GLAAD, and others. From there, it grew. When he graduated and was about to go to college, I thought starting a podcast might help reach more people, and it’s been such a rewarding experience. Dr. Cam (03:14.955) That's amazing. Heather Hester (03:26.227) The podcast has allowed me to connect people with wisdom to an audience of parents and allies hungry for information. Dr. Cam (03:42.338) I love that. Turning your story into help for others is so powerful. What went through your mind when your son first came out? Heather Hester (03:57.507) It was a defining moment. My son came out in a dramatic way, running away while my husband and I were out of town. It was terrifying. I had been raised in a very conservative Christian home, so my initial reaction was, "There's no way my child is going to hell." That led to the realization that I had a lot to learn. The first thing my husband and I did was ask, "What does he need from us?" We had no idea where to begin. The first 30 minutes were a blur, and we realized we were completely underprepared. Dr. Cam (05:55.096) What advice can you offer parents just starting on this journey? Heather Hester (06:15.399) We tend to overcomplicate things, but the most important thing is to show your child unconditional love. They need to know we’ve got their back no matter what. Everything else comes from that space. Heather Hester (she/her) (15:03.131) Yes, that’s a very common concern. I have two thoughts on that. First, it’s great that our kids now have access to find their people. When we were growing up, the reason many of our peers didn’t come out was because they didn’t know where to find others like them. They didn’t know who was safe to talk to or come out to. Now, with social media, they have that access. Dr. Cam (15:38.51) All those connections. Heather Hester (she/her) (15:38.51) Exactly. It can be a double-edged sword, though. Yes, social media has its dangers, but this access allows kids to find the communities they need. It helps them connect with others who understand their experience, even if those connections are online at first. Dr. Cam (15:56.036) Right, and I think that fear parents have of social media influencing their child to "join a trend" is more rooted in a misunderstanding. It’s not about jumping on a bandwagon—it’s about their child coming to terms with who they’ve always been, just having the words or the space to express it now. Heather Hester (16:14.001) Yes, exactly. And it’s important to remember that when a child comes out, they’ve often been thinking about it for a long time. They’ve already processed it in ways we may not have been aware of. And when they finally open up, they’re not looking for validation or attention—they just want to be seen for who they truly are. Dr. Cam (16:28.365) Right. The idea of this being a "phase" can be damaging. It diminishes their experience and makes them question themselves. That’s why it’s so crucial for parents to approach this with openness, trust, and patience. Heather Hester (16:42.303) Exactly. The last thing they need is for us to minimize their experience. They’re already dealing with a lot, and our job is to support them, not make them feel like they have to prove themselves our kids are able to find community and they are able to look at others and say, like they see representation, they see themselves and they're like, that's how I feel on the inside. Like I'm not alone in feeling that way. And so it's very validating for who they are and it helps give them the courage then to come out to you, right? To come to you and say, this is who I am, right? I had another thought on that and now it's going away. I'll have to circle back to that. Dr. Cam (16:35.182) One thing as you, yeah, one thing when you're thinking about that too, and I think we find, I actually think that's a bigger plus of the social media talking to teens. A lot of them have found that that has actually saved their lives because they have found community and support where they can't find it in real life. The other thing is from what I hear too is that it's not that they come to them and change their mind. It's that they find the people that they relate to and then explain who they are. And that's why they're drawn. So parents see it as a cause this way. And really it's a cause of I'm finding you because I already feel this way. And now you're explaining to me how I feel and showing that I'm not alone and that there's others like me. And so you're not changing me. You're helping me accept me. And that's what I see a lot. Heather Hester (17:05.885) Correct. Correct. That is a thousand percent correct. And that was so beautifully the way you just said that was perfect because that is it. That is it. I kids are, and I think about, know, even going back to Connor, which was 2017, a while ago, but that he was out there because he felt he couldn't come to us. He was so scared to say anything to anyone that he was looking things up. He was trying to get answers to the questions of, this is how I'm feeling. And we want to be part of that process because the flip side is there are a lot of dangerous things out there. There are a lot of dangerous people out there who are preying on our kids. So if we are not having these conversations with them and and acknowledging like, this is actually a great thing that you've found this community and you've found these people where you do feel like it is so validating of who you are and where you can ask questions because there are a lot of questions that we can't answer as cisgendered, know, straight people. So that is a great, great thing. And we want to make sure it's safe. So that's, again, a reason to have that open communication to encourage like, okay, hey, I'm learning right along with you and I want to know and this isn't a bad thing at all. Dr. Cam (18:59.554) Yeah, I think as you're saying this, we come from a place of wanting to keep them safe by trying to talk them out of it. When that is actually shutting them down and in a way becoming their number one bully because we're turning away who they are. And it prevents us from being able to help protect them because now they don't trust us. Rather than saying, okay, this is who you are. How do you be who you are out in the world? and how do you keep yourself as you out in the world? And one thing you will always, always know is that I've got your back. And man, that is what helps kids make it through mentally because we go, my gosh, this has such a negative impact on their mental health. Well, the number one reason is when their parents reject them is why. So if we accept them, we can help them become more resilient. Heather Hester (19:50.003) Correct. Correct. Dr. Cam (19:56.472) to the people that aren't gonna accept him. And yeah, there's gonna be a lot of people out there that are going to be cruel. We just don't wanna be one of them. Heather Hester (20:03.751) Yes, correct, correct. And realizing our speech, there's a lot of work that goes into changing our speech and the words that we use that we don't even realize are hurtful or harmful. And I think that can be very difficult to, there's a lot of work that we have to do as parents and unlearning some of those, very deeply ingrained either beliefs or slang that we use, all of these things that we now, it is very important to your point to be aware of, to shift so that we aren't that bully, so we aren't that reason that our child is struggling with mental health because...they do have the world that's gonna come at them. So they need their home, their parents, their people to be, this needs to be like the safety nest, like 100,000 % safe, open, and just this warm, cozy place that they learn then how to build the resilience and build those tools that they're gonna need to go out in the world and handle all the things that come at them. Dr. Cam (21:33.142) Yeah. And I think, and we mentioned before, and I'm like replaying stuff that has happened, you know, in my life as well with being curious and wanting to show support without question, but also being a little selfish in asking questions and depending on them to relay my, to inform me and to educate me and being offended if they took what I said the wrong way and saying, well, that's not what I meant, rather than going, let me go learn as much as I can. And let me ask you if I can ask questions, because I do have questions that I want to understand. And also making it all about that. And all of a sudden, was their identity became just about that for a while while we settled in. which was unfair and I'm glad we're past that point where that's not the identity. But it was for a long time and I feel bad about that because I know a lot of it was me because of my curiosity. So how do we support them, show them we support them, but allow them to be them without making it all of it? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Heather Hester (22:54.503) All of it, yeah, absolutely, 100 % of their identity, absolutely. Well, I think you already really kind of hit the really important parts, which are go do your own work, go do your own learning, figure out the places. There's so many books, websites, articles, professionals that are factual. And that's also another very important piece of this is really that I've worked really hard these past eight years to like the facts. Like that's what I've been, I just want to know what is factual, what is true, what is correct, because there is a lot of stuff out there, right? So doing that work on your own. And then again, to your point, coming to them and asking, you know, saying, I have been learning, I've been reading, and I have questions. Is it okay if I ask you the questions? Are you okay with answering some questions? I know it's kind of weird. Whatever your, I mean, your relationship is going to shift and grow in a way that you never imagined it would, I promise you, and in such a great positive way. I will also say that it is very normal for both your child and for you to go, there is a piece of this like, coming out process that is the identity is 100%. They are gay, are bi, they are non-binary, are fill in the blank, right? And that is super normal that there is a time where everything revolves around that because they're trying to get their footing and we're trying to get our footing. I think the fine line in there, the happy space in there is that we're allowing them to kind of bounce around and do their figuring out. And while also knowing that we are a safe space for them to come to that we are happy to get the supports in place that they need. Right. And we are doing our own work. Right. So they're not failing this extra like, I've got to take care of mom. Like mom's going to come ask me a hundred questions today. You know, that whole, we do not want that. Dr. Cam (25:13.76) Yeah, I think the big one and I know what helped me a lot was to focus more on the nephew I've always known and the person I've always known rather than this new piece of identity, but focus on them. And so that is really, and it was hard at first because it was hard to see past this new, because my mind had to shift. a lot and old brains are harder to shift. My daughter used to get so mad at me because I would muggle up and just use the wrong pronouns all the time and my daughter would get so mad at me because she changed like that. I'm like, I'm struggling. I'm trying so hard. And so I said to my nephew, I go, please, I'm going to mess up. I know I'm going to mess up. Heather Hester (26:08.093) Absolutely. Dr. Cam (26:10.488) pointed out and they said, he said, just don't make a big deal out of it when you do. Like you don't have to make a big deal out of it. Just go on and it's fine. Because I would be like, my God, I'm so sorry. And they're like, don't, don't, just go on. Heather Hester (26:24.691) Right. Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly, exactly right. And I think people are, you know, they would much rather that we try and make mistakes and, you know, mess up than not try at all, then just shut down, then just like be so afraid of, and they are, especially if they're teenagers, they're going to get impatient and they're going to snap at us, but they're going to do that regardless. Like this isn't because they're gay, they're snapping at us because they're teenagers and that's what teenagers do. Exactly, like this is, they are learning all of these developmentally like things that every teenager goes through, Developmentally. And on top of that, they're learning how to manage their sexual orientation or their gender identity on top of that. So there's a lot going on. Dr. Cam (27:01.518) They're learning to regulate their emotions. Heather Hester (27:23.505) that holding space for that and allowing them just to be messy and all of that is really important and such a great thing. like it's not a lot, but it is so much to be able to do that. And you had said something about at the beginning of that. I don't remember what it was. It was something that triggered a thought, but it was so good on how to respond and how to kind of, guess, again, hold space for your person and just recognize that they are growing and changing and going through all of these things all at once. So not being overly sensitive to, yeah. Dr. Cam (28:05.677) I was gonna say because the other thing is, and I was talking about the pronouns, there's pronouns, name changes, the pronouns went through a phase of different, like there was a phase of different pronouns being used and things like that and names and things like that. And parents I see will roll their eyes, they'll get offended, well that's the name I gave you, I'm not gonna change that, that I'm mourning the loss of. Heather Hester (28:38.023) Yes. Dr. Cam (28:50.488) How do we navigate and those feelings are real and that sense of loss is real. You raised a straight boy for years and now all of a sudden your child is not a straight boy, right? And so you do mourn the loss of that and what your, but it's not a loss of your child. It's a loss of your expectations of that child. So let's be real first of all. Heather Hester (28:57.318) Absolutely. Dr. Cam (29:19.884) Those expectations were not fair and might not have lived out anyway. So how do we let go of these expectations in that feeling of loss without putting it on our kids? Heather Hester (29:24.083) Correct. So completely normal. And I think absolutely necessary, actually, to go through, I call it the movie reel, the explosion of the movie reel, because that's how I visualized it in my head when I realized what was going on. And it is such a normal thing that a parent needs to go through, again, with a professional, with trusted adult with a friend, not with their child. This is not their stuff. This is not about them. This is about your stuff, right? And it's valid stuff. It's very valid. Yes, you did name your child that. Yes, you did, you know, use the pronouns he. And now your child wants to use the pronouns they or she or he, she, they, or it is fluid. And here's, and this is the other thing that I thought of a little bit ago is the idea of being fluid, whether it's, you whether it is with gender or with sexuality. It is something that our kids are able, and first of all, something that has been since the beginning of time. So this is not a new thing that has just popped up in the past five years. This has been historically documented since the beginning of time. Second, our kids are so good at just rolling with it. We and our generation and I think generations kind of around us are so connected to the binary and so connected to being able to check a box and really connected to these finite ideas, whereas our kids are not. And so for them, it's not that they're changing their mind. It's not that they're making a choice. It's not these things that are like very concrete ideas in our brains, they are able to really explore the possibilities of like, I'm feeling this, like this is what I'm connecting with. This does not really have a name or a label or a thing. So I'm gonna try to connect it to something you understand, adult person in my life, right? And so there is that kind of what seems like a breakdown in communication, but they are really actually trying to communicate as best they can their experience. And so it becomes again for us, another layer of the work to, and this was a hard one for me. Like this took a lot of, not that I was like angry or mad about it, but just like realizing how much of this was stuck in there of the binary of needing to have a box of being like, you know, kind of bumping back up against stuff and being like, why is this stuck in my vernacular? Like, why do I keep defaulting to this, you know, using these three words over here? So give yourself some grace knowing that this this isn't something that you just decide, well, I'm going to do the work, which Bravo, thank you. But know that that work is going to take time and you are going to mess up and you are going to make mistakes. And you're going to have to pick yourself back up and dust yourself off and be like, all right, I'm just going to keep doing this because I want to show up for my kid. I want to show up for the people in my life who I love. I want to keep evolving as a human being. Dr. Cam (33:14.794) Sorry, I think what is very difficult to is when and you were talking about, know the boxes We do as adults get very set in social norms and a lot of them are social norms We fought against when we were younger Before we were like set in stone that this is the way it needs to be and now we're trying very hard to Mold and box our kids up into social norms that we have accepted which by the way have changed drastically over the years and will continue to change drastically. So they are not law, they are social norms, but we are so stuck to them that we are sure we are right. And we are so convinced and we choose social norms, things that have been told to us that are different all over the world, but we choose those over listening and believing our kids. Heather Hester (33:47.005) Yes. Dr. Cam (34:10.606) accepting our kids for who they are. And I think we need to really look at our social norms more important to us than our kids and allowing them to be their authentic selves. And some people I know are going to choose social norms. And I get that there are people that just are not able to let go of that. But for the people that can look at and accept their kids and want their kids to be authentically real because all of us want our kids to be happy. Kids are not going to be happy molding themselves to try to fit social norms that they don't fit into. They are going to be happy being accepted for who they are. Heather Hester (34:39.527) Yeah. Right. And I would say to that point, our kids, their, and kids just from all of time want to make their parents happy. They want, they want the love of their parents, right? So they're going to do whatever they can to get that love. So if, you know, people are saying, well, my child did do what I told them to do, or did, you know, say, well, it was a choice or it was a phase or it was this. Dr. Cam (35:01.195) 100%. Heather Hester (35:20.059) I have to stop and question that because how much of that was your child wanting to be loved? And I say that coming from a place of I did that for the greater part of 35 years of my life wanting that from my parents, right? So like twisting myself and knots and knots and knots until I realized like, no, like that doesn't that's not who I am, that doesn't work for me. And then having to do all the work to untwist, right? And knowing that that is also possible, right? That that is possible to do. Our child, our children. just need us to love them unconditionally for who they are. And yes, that might cause you some discomfort. And yes, that might cause fractures in other relationships in your lives or a separation from societal norms that you are comfortable with. But it's something that I really encourage people to sit with and think about at the end of the day. What is more important, having that relationship with your child, being able to have your child walk into the world as who they authentically are now instead of 20 years from now or 30 years from now? What is most important to you? And really examining that. that takes courage to do that. Dr. Cam (37:02.382) It takes a lot of courage and I think there there's definitely a piece where people feel like well, this isn't the kid I wanted I wanted a This kid or I wanted a this kid and you know I'm trying to make them into this kid because that's what I wanted and I think that is a very unfair thing because you're given the kid that you're given just as they are given the parent that they are given and Heather Hester (37:27.997) Right, exactly. Dr. Cam (37:30.71) You are the parent that they were given. So our goal is to be the best parent for them that we can be if we want to be, you know, and I think that's hard for a lot of, it is, it's hard for a lot of people to accept this is the child that I have. Heather Hester (37:38.043) Exactly/ Well, and I think there are two, you know, it is very, very difficult and I'm kind of trying to take a moment with that to respond wisely. Because I see such an opportunity in that for growth. Not only within allowing your child to really show up in the world as who they are, but for you to be able to pause and say, a second, like this is actually really cool. Look how much I can learn about this over here that I never even imagined I would have the opportunity to learn about in such an up close and personal way. Look at, you know, the direction that this is moving my life, right, in a way that I never imagined that it would move. And, you know, again, to your point, I do understand that it is difficult to let go of the expectation but it's also kind of what we sign up for when we decide to become parents is. Dr. Cam (39:12.494) I think what I'm finding too is the movie that we create for our kids future, right? Which we may do based on what we want. A, no matter what, there's no guarantee any of that's gonna ever happen. So we need to stop trying to get our kids to play out the role that we've created for them. I think also when we let it play out, it goes beyond anything we are capable of imagining. Heather Hester (39:34.685) Correct. Dr. Cam (39:42.446) And I just see all of the kids, my daughter and my nieces and my nephews living a life that would never have been any of it, what I specifically would have imagined for them. they're so much better than what I came up with, right? And they're doing beautifully and they're authentic and happy and they still struggle and there's still things that are problems and their life is not perfect because God doesn't want, we don't have perfect lives. They still have a lot of those, but that's part of the life and the fact that they all are able to turn to one another and to us. And there's a support system there that no matter what they go through, they know they've got people behind them is the most magical thing that I can see with the family. Heather Hester (40:33.233) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think there's that piece of realizing that control is an illusion. And so the fact that we think we can control our kids and we can control the outcome of their lives is not, right? So the sooner we realize like, we have these little beings and like, What are their passions? What do they love? What do they want to, you what did they, how do they see the world? Right? What are they imagining? And, you know, exactly to your point and kind of at the same time, allowing that movie reel we created, it needs to fall apart. It needs to fall away. So doing the work that we have to do to be like, okay, yeah, I did create that. And I, I really did love that outcome for whatever reason. those things for whatever reason. And I'm gonna be okay with letting it go because I see my kid over here and my gosh, they're so happy. And they're so just like experiencing life in a way that I never imagined it could be experienced. they're human, they're human, right? So they're having the whole human experience. And which means there are gonna always be struggles, there are gonna always be peaks and valleys and all of that because that's part of being human. Dr. Cam (42:04.652) Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing. job is not to protect them from themselves or from the world. Our job is to support them and let them know they can handle whatever comes their way. And we're going to be there for them. Heather Hester (42:17.195) Exactly. Yep. Teaching resilience, teaching, you know, yeah, that they can do this. They can go out there in that big world and do it. you know, at the of the day, we're always here to be a listening ear, to do what needs to be done, right? Dr. Cam (42:39.118) So Heather, how do people find you, particularly if they're looking for support? Heather Hester (42:46.083) Absolutely. Yes. So I, my website is the best way to find me. You can contact me right through there through the contact page. It's chrysalismama.com, which is C-H-R-Y-S-A-L-I-S-M-A-M-A.com. I think that is really the best way that you can find me. The podcast is Just Breathe, Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen, and that is everywhere podcasts are. So that is a good way just to listen in. But yes, reaching out to me directly. I love when people reach out. I love talking with other parents and working with other parents. so bring it on. Dr. Cam (43:32.97) I love it. And what is the one takeaway you want parents to have from this conversation? Heather Hester (43:39.685) my goodness. I think kind of the thread we have been pulling this entire time, which is it doesn't need to be difficult. Just love them, love them unconditionally and really embracing and understanding that that meaning of unconditional love and just holding that space for them. Yeah. Dr. Cam (44:05.824) I love it. Thank you so much for joining us, Heather. Heather Hester (44:08.989) Thank you so much for having me.…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

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"Mom, I Want to Die": A Mother's Raw Journey Through Teen Depression 59:55

vor 5 weeks59:55

59:55

In this powerful episode, Dr. Cam and Jamie Edelbrock explore the challenges of parenting teens, from managing anxiety and depression to overcoming parental guilt. Jamie shares her personal journey of advocating for her child, building trust, and embracing the power of connection over control. Discover practical strategies for balancing guidance with independence, prioritizing your own well-being, and creating a safe space for your teen to be their authentic self. This is the essential conversation every parent of a teenager needs to hear! WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE How to navigate your teen’s mental health struggles – Tips on addressing anxiety, depression, and the importance of support systems. The importance of building trust and communication – How to foster an open and trusting relationship with your teen. How to balance control and independence – Why letting go and empowering your teen is crucial for their emotional growth. The significance of self-care for parents – How focusing on your own well-being helps you better support your teen. Creating a safe space for your teen to be their authentic self – The power of authenticity in building a healthier relationship with your child. 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Mental health challenges are not anyone's fault – Recognize that mental health struggles affect teens across all backgrounds, and it's essential not to blame yourself or your child. Parenting is about balance – Sometimes saying "yes" more often helps create a foundation of trust, making the necessary “no’s” more respected. Self-care is non-negotiable for parents – Taking care of your own mental health equips you to better support your teen. Empower your teen with autonomy – Give your teen the space to make decisions and take ownership of their actions, fostering independence. Worrying less about the future helps you enjoy the present – Instead of constantly stressing about your teen’s future, focus on building a positive, supportive relationship in the present moment. ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline If you're in crisis or need support, call or text 988 for confidential help. Available 24/7. Psychology Today Therapy Directory: www.psychologytoday.com/ Search for licensed mental health professionals, including therapists, counselors, and psychiatrists near you. National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI): www.nami.org/ NAMI provides a range of resources for mental health services and local support groups. Jamie's Books: Tangled Up: A heartfelt exploration of mental health struggles and the path to healing, designed to inspire families to stay connected during difficult times. Be the Sparkle : A guide for parents, offering practical strategies to help children feel empowered and spark their own resilience. The Adventure of Little Selfie : A children’s book that encourages self-love and mindfulness in young readers. EPISODE CHAPTERS: 00:00 Introduction to Mental Health Advocacy for Parents 02:58 Personal Experiences with Teen Anxiety and Depression 05:59 Navigating Parental Guilt and Finding Support in Parenting 09:04 Building Trust and Effective Communication with Teens 11:51 Why Letting Go Is Crucial for Parenting Teenagers 15:00 Finding Joy and Fulfillment in Parenting Teens 18:02 Balancing Teen Freedom with Parental Responsibility 21:04 The Impact of Worry on Parent-Teen Relationships 24:00 Encouraging Authenticity and Self-Expression in Your Child 26:49 Trusting the Parenting Process and Letting Go of Perfection 30:49 Building Strong, Supportive Relationships with Your Teen 36:44 The Importance of Parental Self-Care for Mental Health 42:41 Empowering Your Teen Through Autonomy and Independence 48:56 The Power of Connection Over Control in Parenting Teens 55:57 Embracing Imperfection in Parenting Teenagers CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Jamie Edelbrock Website: www.jamieedelbrock.com Instagram: @tangledupbook Twitter: @TangledUpBook CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:02.259): Welcome back, parents. Today, I’m excited to speak with an amazing author, mental health advocate, and a dear friend of mine, Jamie Edelbrock. Jamie was my very first podcast guest back in 2019, pre-pandemic. We were both stepping into new chapters of our lives, feeling scared but ready to take the leap. Since then, Jamie, you’ve become a powerhouse advocate for children's mental health. You’ve published three award-winning children's books: Tangled Up , Be the Sparkle , and You and Me, The Adventure of Little Selfie . And on top of that, you’ve been raising your three teen daughters. So, let’s get started. What have you been up to? It’s been forever. Jamie Edelbrock (00:43.342): It’s been a ride. We lived overseas in Indonesia for several years. My kids grew up there, and that’s affected their mental health in ways I’ve learned so much from. I’ve become a strong advocate for mental health, focusing on anxiety, depression, LGBTQ issues, and autism. One of my kids was diagnosed with autism and ADHD, and now I’m working to become an RBT, doing one-on-one work with kids and families in ABA therapy. It’s been an adventure. Dr. Cam (01:50.053): The one thing I love about you, Jamie, is that whenever you face a challenge, you don’t just ask, "How do I survive this?" You think, "How can I become an advocate for this?" You embrace it, learn from it, and then help others. That’s so inspiring. Jamie Edelbrock (02:04.65): Yes. Dr. Cam (02:18.843): It’s amazing. You keep getting new challenges, and you handle them with such grace. How has your advocacy evolved over time? Jamie Edelbrock (02:31.725): Something I wanted to talk about today is a story I haven’t shared much. It’s about my daughter and her struggles with anxiety, depression, and suicide. She gave me permission to talk about it. She went through a very tough time in Indonesia, and as parents, we thought, "Why would they be depressed? Why would they be anxious?" But I’ve learned that anxiety and depression don’t discriminate. It doesn’t matter where you come from or what kind of life you lead—it can affect anyone. Dr. Cam (03:12.809): It’s so true. Jamie Edelbrock (03:37.718): We ended up leaving Jakarta early to get her the help she needed because the right mental health resources weren’t available there. I didn’t get to see my oldest graduate high school, and there were a lot of sacrifices. But the most important thing was getting her the help she needed. Dr. Cam (03:51.806): I’m glad you were able to get her the support she needed. Jamie Edelbrock (04:07.102): When we returned to the States, my daughter’s depression deepened. She ended up in the hospital, and she had to stay away from us for a while to get the help she needed. There’s nothing that prepares you for hearing your child say, "I want to die," or having them say, "She has to stay here and you can’t come get her." That experience was incredibly difficult, but it’s something every parent should know about—how to cope with that as a family. Dr. Cam (04:45.343): That’s so hard to imagine. Jamie Edelbrock (05:01.482): And it’s something I want to talk about because, as we’ve seen, anxiety and depression don’t discriminate. There’s no way to predict it. No matter how great your child’s life is, it can still happen. We’ve also dealt with suicide loss. My oldest lost a friend to suicide in 2020, and she ended up saving her best friend’s life from suicide in 2024. These experiences, though tragic, have deeply impacted us, but they’ve also shown me how crucial mental health advocacy is. Nothing prepares you for the weight of it when it’s your own child. Dr. Cam (05:44.549) You spend your life advocating for mental health, focused on your children's mental health, yet you're not able to escape it. Parents feel guilty, shameful, like they're failing. But you're evidence that no matter what you do, We can't always avoid it. So what did you go through processing it as a mom? Jamie Edelbrock (06:22.614) Automatically I thought, I'm doing something wrong. I know all the tips, tools, tricks. She has a good life. We have this set up for her to succeed. I'm doing something wrong. Then I started going back, mom guilt. Maybe I shouldn't have yelled, or done this. That's not the case. I think the first thing besides getting her immediate professional help was getting myself help and professional help and realizing that it's not my fault. I've learned that through therapy. It can be environmental, but it's usually brain chemicals. It runs in our family. While thinking, "what did I do wrong?" I talked to my aunt and learned it runs deep. That was an important key. It's not my fault. Getting her help says you're doing something right. We halted our world, got her what she needed, and got the help I needed. Then I started researching, knowing it's literally her brain chemicals. It's literally how her body and brain are working and something isn't right there. So realizing it's not our fault. We made changes in our lifestyle to help her and us. Dr. Cam (08:42.815) My heart goes out to you. Parents start parenting from fear. They want to prevent their child from going through something, or they don't want anything to happen on their watch. They become hyper-vigilant, constantly asking, "are you okay?" Kids say, "I'd be fine if my parents would just leave me alone." Parents can't let go, building a wall and distrust. Kids don't feel like they can be their authentic selves. How do we manage that fear and the sense that something's wrong without kids opening up? Jamie Edelbrock (10:01.154) We've definitely gone through that. I worry, I'm a fixer. I wanted to protect her, but she made it clear that's not helpful. I need to trust her. As hard as it is, trusting your kids after an event like this, they want to live their happy life. Learning to trust her and that she will tell me if something happens was helpful. Putting other adults in their life is huge because sometimes they don't want to talk to us. She'd say, "I don't like seeing you cry. I don't like hurting you." I had to work on that, get a therapist. Putting other adults in her life was huge. She has a therapist, psychiatrist, trusted adults, friends, and the suicide hotline. I cling to the fact that during her darkest times, she did tell me. And so I cling to that. Anytime she's ever been in trouble, she has come to me. Releasing that and trusting them, knowing it'll come back to you, is healthier. You're opening up that road for them to come. If you cling, you're putting a roadblock up. I've learned to trust they'll tell me. Dr. Cam (12:56.831) Parents struggle most with letting go and trust. They fear, "if I do and something happens, I'm never going to forgive myself." We focus on what we need to feel okay, disregarding what our kids need. How do we live with that fear and discomfort to give our kids what they need to heal? Jamie Edelbrock (13:39.242) I have a phrase: "It's not about me." That's hard because it feels like it is. When they're going through anything, I automatically think, "how is this gonna look? This hurts me. What is this gonna say about us, about our family, about me as a parent?" Especially as an advocate. Having kids do something my old community wouldn't agree with, "what are people gonna say?" I have to freeze and say, "it's not about me." My focus is my children, making sure they are their truest, best, and healthiest selves. It's putting your ego aside and asking, "how can I help you thrive?" That's our job. That saying helps Dr. Cam (15:17.533) It's true and hard to let go. When it's our kids, they are not an extension of us. We often parent as if they are representing us. We are responsible for who they become. We are responsible for being the parent they need to become who they are. It's difficult to see we're not molding them. We are supporting and influencing them and their choices, but we are not controlling that. When they're going down dark paths, it's our job to be there, not to stop them. That is a very difficult thing for parents to hold on to. It's like, yes, it's my job to stop them. Jamie Edelbrock (16:17.302) It's not safe or it's not what I would do or it's not what society would do. You have to think, are they not making a good choice for you or for them? I always say to myself and my kids, I'll let them make their choices. I sit back and I've learned to do that. Do it. If it fails or if you need help, I'm here. Everything in this life is figureoutable. If you try this and it fails, come to me and I will help you figure it out. If you don't come to me, that's okay because I know you can figure it out too. It could be the worst thing, it can be figured out. We will get through this. If I'm lucky enough, I get to help you. Just letting them know, I'm here. I will help you get through this if you want me to. Another phrase I say is, do you want me to help you or do you just need a hug? Instead of automatically thinking I have to help you? I used to be such a fixer. That caused a lot more attention. You think if you fix something, you step in, I'm going to do it. It's insulting. You're doing them a disservice because they can't do it themselves. It's saying you don't trust them. Just even by saying, "what are you going to do?" and "do you want my help?" or "how can I help you?" A lot of times it's "I can do it" or "I'll let you know." We have three teenagers. One's getting ready to move out. That's also, how can I help? I don't want to overstep. I want to wrap you in my arms and make sure you, bubble wrap. I always joke with them. But that's not true. Our job as parents is to let them fly. If you stick with, "I'm here for you and we're gonna figure it out," they will come back if they need help. Dr. Cam (19:09.971) Parents get hurt or offended when their kids don't take their advice or won't listen. For me, I'm excited because that shows my teen feels confident to try to figure it out and not lean on me. There's nothing offensive about that. I'm like, yay, you. You got this. Jamie Edelbrock (19:36.138) You did it. Dr. Cam (19:39.781) It's another thing of it's not about me. It's about what does she need? You have to set aside your ego. I have found my daughters typically more right than I am. She has a way better memory and knows herself better than I know her. There's no way for me to know her better because I'm not in her head. Jamie Edelbrock (20:10.502) My kids will always say, "you don't know what's in my head." Or "I got this." Or the best thing I can hear is, "I already did that." You're just like, "okay." They will say, "you don't need to worry." I traveled to Jordan years ago. I was on the top of Petra with a Bedouin shepherd. I was worried. I was asking him worry questions. Instead of enjoying the view, I was faced with worry. I was ruining the moment. The Bedouin Shepherd looked at me, And he said, "why you worry lady?" He said, "I would not have a job if people died." It brings you right back. Focus on reality. Dr. Cam (21:57.161) When we spend so much of our children's teen childhood worrying, we miss the beauty and joy of what that period is about. We miss it completely and we ruin it for our kids. Our kids don't get to experience the joy of being a teen. I see so many kids that are hopeless, powerless, self harm, drowning themselves in their phone, miserable, trying to escape. In the real world it is fear, pressure, misery. They're not enjoying anything. The things they do enjoy constantly get taken away. Jamie Edelbrock (23:01.218) With each of my kids, they're all so different and their interests are so different. It's so easy to say no. But finding that joy of them being teens and not being stuck on their phone is saying yes to what they want to do, even if it isn't what you pictured for their life. My husband and I were talking about this yesterday because something our youngest wants to do, and he just said, "it's not about me." Letting them be their authentic self is key for building your relationship with them, for them trusting you. Then you get to learn something new too. I had no idea that even existed. Dr. Cam (24:33.139) Aren't we raising entitled kids if we're always indulging them in what they want to do? Does that mean we just sit back and indulge them and let them do whatever they want? Aren't they gonna become entitled, disrespectful kids? Where's that line drawn where we're still raising kids that are respectful, grateful, polite, and kind? Jamie Edelbrock (25:23.16) That comes from connection with your kids. If you take that connection away by not allowing them to do what they want, I'm not saying dangerous stuff, but their hobbies, their special interests, they'll trust you, which builds a connection. How would I want to be treated? Growing up I didn't have money to do stuff that I wanted to. If someone was giving me everything I wanted to do for my special interests, I think that would have set me on a road to success. If you have the means and the ability, do it. Even if you don't have the money, every single thing is figureoutable. There are ways to help your kids in these special interests. What matters is that you are believing them. "I believe you want to do that. I believe you're good at that. You're gonna become great at that. I wanna see where this takes you." If it is a flop, now we know. Dr. Cam (27:17.887) We focus so much on preparing them for the future. My focus has always been how do I make this stage of her life amazing? I want her to look back at her teen years and go, "those were freaking amazing." And I loved my relationship with my mom and I loved what we did and I worked really hard in these areas. And you know what? I did fail in these areas, but I learned from that and I've grown from that. And I know now based on my conversations with my daughters, like daughter, every, she does, like she's sad about moving onto the next phase, even though she's excited about it because she loves this phase. And every phase has been a phase that we've loved because we have made it something special. it's not been indulging in everything that I've said no to stuff that we can't do. But man, if I can say yes, 100%, I am saying yes. And those are the best moments we've had. Jamie Edelbrock (28:28.332) Well, yeah, and absolutely. And I think if we say no to everything just out of control or out of anxiety or because it's not what we want for them, you are building that wall. And if you say no every single time, they're not gonna trust you. If you say yes and let's try it, then when you do have to say no, they realize it is serious. So it's like, pick your battle. Like, say no to the things that really matter. And I've had to say that, I've had to say no. And my daughter has said, okay, I trust you. Because we say yes to so much and let's try it, let's do it. When I say no, she'll ask why and I let them ask why, I let them push back, I let them, because maybe it could turn into a yes. need to, what don't I know about this? But saying yes as often as you can, I think makes the nos that much more important. You know, like, this is a serious thing, you cannot do that. Or this is why I don't want you to do that. So yeah. Dr. Cam (29:25.108) Exactly. I had a mom tell me, who has an older child, that she looks back and wishes so much that she had not fought about all the stupid stuff they had fought about because now her daughter doesn't trust her on some of the bigger stuff. And she goes, none of that mattered. None of it mattered at all. And I was so focused on being right and controlling it and making sure she didn't do any of these little things. And I regret all of it because it just was stupid. And now when it's really matters and it's really important, she's digging herself out of a hole because her daughter doesn't trust her for the big stuff. I'm like, that is so incredibly true. And the big stuff, going back to mental health, is when your child is struggling with Jamie Edelbrock (30:27.18) Yep, it is, it really is. Dr. Cam (30:38.051) series mental health issues, which again, we've just said it's not on us. It's not about us. It's about them. But when they know we're going to figure it out and we're not going to lose it and we're not going to make it about us, then they trust us. Jamie Edelbrock (30:43.146) Right, right. That's the biggest thing my daughter was not making it about me. And it is about her. And she even said at one point in the middle of all of this, I don't want you to think this is your fault. and I think, yeah, having them being able to come to us with those big things, I think we think in the moment we're doing something wrong, but because they came to you, you're actually doing something right. And the way to get to that rightness is to cultivate that relationship with them now when things are good. And it's by saying yes, it's letting the little things go. I've been saying all these phrases I use, but it's true. Another one is I don't want to fight you. and the argument stops or I'm going to go to my room until we're both calmed down. I'm not going to put you in time out or till you're grounded or take away your phone. I'm going to calm down. And once I've calmed down, we can talk about this because I know this is important to you. Those little things matter for the big stuff. You're really you're giving yourself and your child a gift by doing those things when things are right. for when things go wrong. Like you can open that gift up when the things go wrong. Dr. Cam (32:16.253) Yeah, I love that, the gift. That's beautiful. And it is something that they have to turn on too, because the one thing that also is very foundational when kids are struggling is to know without a doubt that they have a support system there and that they have somebody else that believes in them, because it's very hard to believe in themselves. And if they don't have anyone else, particularly their parents, that believe in them, How are they going learn to believe in themselves? But when they know, and I think there's the difference between feeling pressure saying, okay, I'm responsible for my parents' emotions because if I'm doing something and I'm responsible for how they feel, that's a lot of pressure on me and I can't handle the pressure because now I'm responsible, but I'm not, they're not responsible for how we feel. They're not responsible for making us happy. They are not responsible for making us feel valued. That is not their job, right? Our job is to do that. Jamie Edelbrock (33:17.102) Right, right. It's easy to fall into that trap when you're a parent though, to think that. Dr. Cam (33:25.081) It is. It is so easy to do that and then to get really resentful to them for not making us feel okay. And that is not correct. You made me feel disrespected. You made me feel this. And that is a very unfair thing because we're making them feel that as well in the same respect, but we don't like them saying that. Jamie Edelbrock (33:30.744) Like, you're in trouble because you hurt me. You made me mad, so you're in trouble. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Cam (33:54.535) So there's a lot of kind of irony or, know, there's a little confusion going on there. They're like, well, you made me mad, but I'm not allowed to be mad. Now I'm mad at you and now I'm in trouble for making you mad. I'm confused. Jamie Edelbrock (34:05.419) It's so true. And again, that goes back to how do you want to be treated? If I was in this conversation or on the other end of the conversation, how would I want to be spoken to? How would I want to feel? And as soon as you realize that, like, I would hate it, or I hated it when my parents talked to me like this, why would I think that's okay for my kid? When we were in this mental health facility with my daughter, she would go through counseling sessions and therapy sessions and then they would once in a while pull me into the therapy session. And the first thing the therapist said to me, she looked me dead in the eyes and said, but what are you doing for you? Like you're doing all of this. And you know, my daughter is seeing. doesn't like to see me cry, doesn't like to see me upset. Like you said, automatically that puts the pressure on them. Like I need to hold this together because I don't want my mom to be upset. And she said, how are you controlling your emotions around her? Like what's helping you? And I didn't have an answer. One, because life was chaotic in the moment, but it was very much like... Jamie Edelbrock (35:23.872) You're right, your daughter does need to see a therapist and a psychiatrist. What are you doing? Like, it's like she flipped it right on me. Not because it's my fault, but because when I'm okay, that's gonna help our relationship. And I think that comes down to that then you learn what they're doing is not about me. What they're doing, they're not trying to hurt us. They're not trying to, it's like... You all of sudden, well, I all of a sudden saw us as two completely separate individuals versus, we are, we absolutely like, like you said, not an extension of us. like, okay, I am living with an almost adult. let's figure this out. And so that's why I think it's so important. And I think the most advice I think I would give to any parents out there was seek help for yourself. Dr. Cam (35:55.071) but you are. Jamie Edelbrock (36:17.58) That is so important. When it comes to your kids, yeah, it's not about you. It's not at the same time, you are about you. Right? Yes. So you need to get the help. You need to get like focus on you. It's for you. Because then everything trickles down. Dr. Cam (36:39.039) For you. Exactly. 100 % for you. Jamie Edelbrock (36:44.064) And everything kind of falls into place. When you're focused on yourself, when you're focused on helping yourself and self-help and getting in your right zone, and that could mean a lot of different things. I've had to, there's, you know, people have had to like let go of, there's, you know, there's situations or things I've had to be like, okay, no, I'm moving on. I'm bettering myself. But when things are right with you, things will trickle down and be right with your family and your kids as well. Dr. Cam (37:11.327) I hear parents go, well, I don't have time because I'm doing all this stuff for my kids and I'm doing all this stuff for my family and I don't have time for me. And I think if you are doing all this stuff for your family, right there's the problem because that's not your job to do all that stuff for your family. Support them, but let them do for themselves because that helps them more than you doing for them. Jamie Edelbrock (37:25.292) Right. Yeah. Dr. Cam (37:36.521) So if you're, if you're doing all this and a lot of times we're resentful towards them and they're in great, they're not grateful for all we're doing and I'm giving everything of mine, they don't want it. So they're not grateful because they don't want it. And you're making them feel bad for giving them stuff they don't even want. So step back. They want freedom. They want their own ownership. They want that. Not for you to not care, but for you to care for yourself. Jamie Edelbrock (37:46.36) It's true. It's true. Dr. Cam (38:03.175) and take time because they're watching. How do I value me while I'm watching how mom values her and takes care of her? And then you don't feel all this anger and resentment towards them, which takes away a lot of the stress. yeah. Jamie Edelbrock (38:16.16) It does. Like I said, it becomes a roadblock. When you have control you have, I just picture it like two fists coming on a road like, nope, in order to get by, it's going to be a fight. But as soon as you let go, it just opens a path for peace and communication and a better relationship. Yep. Yep. Dr. Cam (38:31.133) And they enjoy being around you and they trust being around you and they want to be around you when you're when you are someone that you want to be around yourself. Right. And not controlling all of this other stuff. So to me, if you're feeling any resentment or stress or any of that, that is not your kid's fault. That is on you to let go. And how empowering is that? Because now we don't need them to change for us to be OK. Jamie Edelbrock (38:40.425) Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I saw this firsthand the other day. I used to be like, hey, if the house is a mess, why aren't you helping? why? Like, don't you see the dishes? Don't you see the laundry? Don't you see the trash? And they don't, to be honest. Like, it doesn't matter to them. They don't care. So, but it matters to me. So I had to learn to like, okay, I can go to bed with dirty dishes in the sink. I can let the laundry sit on the couch. I'm tired. I'm going to bed or, you know, prioritize. And, Dr. Cam (39:15.955) They don't, and they don't care! No! Jamie Edelbrock (39:31.242) They know how to a sink or a dish. They know how to get their clothes if they need to. But I was out with my two other kids, but the other one wanted to stay home. And she was home, and I came home, we left the house with, it was a mess. Came home, and she was sitting on the couch with this smile on her face, like. I'm like, what? What's happening? What's going on? And she just kept smiling until I looked up at the kitchen and saw that it was completely clean and she had made homemade cookies. And I, at that moment was like, I hugged her, I like, this is so amazing. Thank you so much. Like, thank you, thank you, thank you. But that was done without asking. That was done without nagging. That was done, like I would get to it, absolutely. And if I asked for help, they would help. But... The fact that that was done on their own just because they wanted to do something nice, that was like, okay, they, yes, yes, yes, yes. They don't care, yeah. Dr. Cam (40:29.703) and they know your love language is a clean house. They don't care, but yeah, I love that. I think it's focusing too on what their strengths are as well because like my daughter will leave stuff around and she knows it drives me nuts and everyone's gonna be like, you know, it drives me nuts. Can you clean that up for me? I know it's not for you, but can you clean? But then she'll do her stuff. Like when I was sick, she's like, I'm gonna run across the street and she came back and she had. Cough drops and a tease and like all this stuff and she's like I'm gonna take care of you because that's her love language like she loves Cleaning up not her thing taking care of her thing. I'm like, okay So I'm not gonna get mad that there's some dishes that don't haven't been clean the way I want them to be clean Cuz that's not me. But man how cool of that, but she just Jamie Edelbrock (41:00.707) It is and that's it's important to focus on what they're doing right. Focus on their strengths. Focus on and bend into that. Lean into that because that's where you're going to see them shine. That's where you're going to like it'll help you stop nagging the little things that are bothering you when you focus on like wow you're really good at that. Like you're really good for caring for others and for me and that's their strength. I have found that not nagging about chores and homework and all of that stuff. When I do say, can you help? Like, can you bring in the garbage? They do it like that. It's not even an issue. But if I were to nag them, exactly, exactly. That was a hard, like if they say, no, I don't want to right now. Or, you know, my one teen is like, I just got off work. My back hurts. I'm like, okay. Dr. Cam (42:00.115) Yeah. No. And they're allowed to say no too. Jamie Edelbrock (42:15.662) Like I understand because in that situation, I would probably say the same thing. I don't want to do it. It's not good for me right now. And I think that's a powerful lesson when your kids say no, like letting them say no, because when they get out in the real world, they need to have that, what is it, that tool in their toolbox to be able to say no and mean it. And people need to respect that. Dr. Cam (42:41.801) I think a lot of parents fear that if they do that, that's all their kids will ever do, is no, no, no, no, no, no. And I have found that they will try it once and of course their kid is gonna say no. And then they get mad and I'm like, well, they weren't allowed to say no then. And when you do it for a while and you set that precedent and they know that they can say no, that's when things shift. But that doesn't change overnight. It does not change overnight. And then if they... If their answer is not what we want their answer to be, then we get upset too. And I'm like, that's not the point either. Point is not for them to now suddenly do what we want them to do on their own. That's not the point. The point is to respect what they're doing. And it's once we respect that, they start respecting us a lot more and they do jump in when it's on their terms and it makes them feel good. Whole different ball game. And it's amazing how much they like love to help. Jamie Edelbrock (43:21.166) It doesn't feel natural when you first do it, especially, you know, the way I was raised and how I started raising them as kids. Like, don't you say no to your mom. Like, how dare you? Like, I told you to do something. Like, that is, you need to respect me. But then you think, I have never respected anybody that demanded respect. You know, I haven't. And if someone wouldn't listen to, yeah, if someone didn't listen to how I was feeling or really cared, they're blocked. That wall is up, or I don't trust them. And if I have to work with them or be with them, that's not gonna be a good relationship. And so the same goes, and especially for our kids. Dr. Cam (44:01.663) No. It's on how respect is made. Jamie Edelbrock (44:27.278) Like that's where it goes back to treat them how you want to be treated. And if you want them to respect you, you need to respect them. And that isn't by demanding. That's not by dictatorship. That's not, I mean, that's one thing I say all the time is parenting is not a dictatorship. It's a relationship. And when you have that relationship, then the connection is there. And that's when, that's what matters. Dr. Cam (44:34.516) I think parents really, really struggle with that because it feels like you're giving up authority. It feels like you are letting them rule the world and you are letting them have their way. And I think what's really important is when we have that thought process and that mindset, we are seeing and viewing our kids not as human beings, individual human beings. We are seeing them as our subjects, our things to control. And that right there is what causes so much friction and disrespect. We are not saying, yes, we are adults. Yes, it is our home. Yes, it is things that we want to influence them and teach them. But it's not done through demand and yelling and control because that's not how humans work. And kids are human beings. And I think that's where we're separate. We're not seeing kids. As humans, we're expecting things and we're expecting them to respond to things that humans do not respond to. And we need to let go of this view that just because we raise them, that they should be a different way towards us despite our own behavior. That is not how humans work. Jamie Edelbrock (45:55.576) No, and I never understood, you know, my parents, it was very controlling, like, parent-child relationship. But then eventually we leave and that control, their control is gone. And then what? Like you kind of left floundering or I don't know what to do or we're always expecting someone to be in control of us or tell us what to do. So you either are underdeveloped in that area or you go off the deep end and because you're free finally. And so I think, I can't remember the exact wording you just used, but yes, they should be in control of their lives. They should be in control of their, know, kids should be what's going on in their brains, in their minds. I think you said something about parents being worried, like, my gosh, they're gonna be the center of the universe or whatever. They should be in their lives. We are, like, and that's how they learn their independence, their self-respect, that's how they know the feelings and emotions in their body. That's how they can tell when something's off. That's how they learn. And it's our job to be there to help them figure out their authentic best self and what's going on with them. And by trying to control them, we are just hindering that. The control doesn't last forever, so it shouldn't even be there at all. But if you're a parent that is so concerned about controlling your child and their actions and making sure they don't mess up and they're doing things the right way, you're actually hindering them. You're stunting their authenticity and their growth at being an adult. Because eventually your control will stop when they move out of the house. Dr. Cam (47:50.793) Right. And what you can do and what is your most powerful thing as the parent, which is through connection, is influence. And when you're controlling, you have minimal influence, which is what makes long lasting change and really helps them learn how to make good decisions and trust you to talk through decisions. And that's what we want to teach them. So as parents, yeah, we have lots of influence. Yes, we do want to set up some rules and regulations to keep them safe with them, understanding them, because we're teaching them. We're teaching as parents, we're not controlling. And I think that's a really difficult, difficult thing for parents to embrace. It feels completely wrong and uncomfortable and no, I'm supposed to be the master of everything and then wonder why their kids don't trust them or won't talk to them. And that's why. Jamie Edelbrock (48:56.962) Yeah, it is. Dr. Cam (48:57.087) So you can do it. That is definitely a choice, but you can't have both. Jamie Edelbrock (49:02.99) No, and you need to decide, think. I remember the turning point in my parenting where I was like, this isn't working. What I'm doing is not working. I don't like the way the kids are feeling. I don't like the way I'm feeling. Something's not working. And so, it felt at the time like I was giving up, but what was happening was relationships were finally starting to build. letting them be themselves and just letting go of that control and that power and really respecting what they want to do even if it's like what's what do you want for dinner what movie do you want to watch what do you want to do today you just want to rest it's like but I had all these things planned for us okay we'll have a rest day you know like yeah that that letting go I think is essential if you want a good relationship with your kids and especially when they leave the house. Dr. Cam (50:05.075) Yeah, and I think going back to even what you were saying with mental health where, you know, no matter what you did, it wasn't going to change the fact that your daughter was suffering from depression. It just, that was, it was what it was. And I think we often think and imagine our kids as like these wild beasts that if we don't control and contain them, they are going to wreak havoc on the world and they're going to be nasty, wild, ugly people. And what I have found is The kids that are nasty, ugly, wild people are the ones railing against feeling controlled. And the kids that are not are the ones that don't feel a need to rail against control and are given that spot. And you know what? There are going to be kids that are going to make some terrible, bad, awful mistakes, no matter what we do. Jamie Edelbrock (50:58.22) Right, they're something, yep. They make their own choices, yep, yep. Dr. Cam (51:00.231) We can control it and they're going to fight our control. And there's going to be kids that no matter what we do aren't. We got to look at who our kid is and how to best support them. But we have to start, we have to understand who they are individually first and figure out what works best for them. But immediately going, got a controller. It's going to get out of control. It's not, not a great place to start. And that gets us into trouble. Jamie Edelbrock (51:25.45) No. Yeah, and I think that's why it's important if you do have a kid that is like that and you're like, what is happening? Is to seek, make sure they're safe and seek professional help if they want it, because they're also at this age where I don't want to go to therapy, I don't want to go. You can't force them, but to get help for yourself. Get tools in your toolbox and make sure that you are mentally healthy and that you have someone you can talk to. because it is uncomfortable when you don't know what to do with your child and you've done everything right. But I think the most important thing, like having that connection, like you said. So if or when that does happen, they know you're a safe person no matter what. Like they know that your love is unconditional, truly unconditional. Not if you check these boxes, not if you look this way. or if you get your act together, then you can come home. It is a truly, I am here and I will listen and I will help you figure this out. That's why the connection is important. So they can come to you when they're Dr. Cam (52:31.859) Yeah, they need to trust. They need to have that. They need to believe. And so if kids are being distrustful or disrespectful, we need to go, why do they feel the need to act that way? What's going on? What's going on? Jamie Edelbrock (52:47.597) Yes, find the why behind it. That is huge too. Okay, you made this bad choice or this poor decision. You learned your lesson, but let's find the why. That's been huge in our family. Why is this happening? do you need to fill in your life or what's missing or what? And just being able to have that conversation is huge. okay, let's talk about the why. Dr. Cam (53:14.781) Yeah. I have just found if in doubt, matter what, nothing goes well when I start in a place of criticism and being mean and being mad and all of that. When I approach anything that way, it never goes well and it doesn't help. When I approach things from kindness and from curiosity and from giving her the benefit of the doubt, we always end up somewhere way better than where we even started from. Jamie Edelbrock (53:15.244) Let's figure this out. Dr. Cam (53:44.251) And that to me is just key. There's no reason to be unkind. There's just no reason. Jamie Edelbrock (53:44.27) 100%. Jamie Edelbrock (53:49.942) I love that so much. It's so true. It's so true. And that goes back to how do I want to be treated? Something my sister said that was so great that I've held close to my heart is she said our relationship isn't fragile. And I think about that with our kids. They can, know, bad things can happen. They can make wrong choices. They are who they are. But my love for them is not fragile. They can throw what they want at me, but I will stand there because not literally. No, no, but you know what I mean. Like the words or whatever happens. Dr. Cam (54:23.699) Not literally, they can't throw knives and stuff. not literally. I just know people get real stuff and that's not a joke. People get real stuff thrown up. We got to step back, right? Yeah. But again. Jamie Edelbrock (54:34.849) That is not a joke. Yes, that is not a joke. Absolutely. you, our, happens, my love for you is not fragile. Our relationship is not fragile. It will be fragile though, if you hold on too tight. That breaks easy. Dr. Cam (54:41.715) Yeah, I love that because there's no nobody in our family is walking on eggshells because we're just stomping on them because we know that we're going to get through it. Yeah. Jamie Edelbrock (54:55.863) Absolutely. And I think that's the best relationship to have with your kids. Like, give it to me. Tell me. Like, let's work it out. And call me out. yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Dr. Cam (55:15.079) And I can call, we can call each other out. We call each other out, not disrespectfully, sometimes jokingly, but we call each other out. Absolutely. Jamie Edelbrock (55:24.084) Right, of course, and I think that's important. That's so important. And I learned so much. I'm like, I had no idea. Like, or I didn't know that that was a thing. Or like, I'm so sorry I hurt your feelings. I didn't think that would hurt your feelings, and I'm sorry. Dr. Cam (55:36.031) Yeah. I feel a lot of times people think that that's being a weak parent, but I see it as being a very strong parent because we're able to parent despite, and I'm not saying I don't have an ego. I do. It's being able to parent despite that. It's being able to put that aside. And that's not an easy thing to do at all. Jamie Edelbrock (55:49.154) No, it's not. And those voices, I mean, there are critics and there are people, people are going to parent how they want to parent. They have those voices and those are things that, okay, this is working for me and my family. And it's so important to turn those voices off sometimes. Like, hey, I am not getting, like, I'm not growing from you saying that. I'm like. That actually hinders my growth from these things or like the things I'm reading or whatever it is and like protecting your mental health in those ways too I think is huge. Dr. Cam (56:32.979) Yeah, parenting is not a report card. I'm not trying to parent to get all A's based on somebody else's qualifications. That is not my job. Whatever other people think, they think. That is fair for them to think. I need to let that go because what matters to me is what my daughter thinks and what my daughter is feeling. That to me is the only, if I have a report card, that's the only one that's allowed to fill it out. Nobody else. Jamie Edelbrock (56:56.622) Yep, absolutely. Yep. Dr. Cam (57:01.119) I'm to get a go check. think I'm getting pretty good grades right now, but we'll see. There's times where I will bomb a test. So man, I will bomb a test. No doubt about it. Jamie Edelbrock (57:07.498) Yes, so true. And it's the repair after you bomb the test going back and like, okay, sorry, how can I have a retake? Yes, I need to redo this. I think that is huge. Like I messed up. I know I did. This is what I'm gonna do better. Let's redo it. And that's huge for building trust too. Dr. Cam (57:14.537) Can I have a retake? I go get a retake. Yep, I go get a retake. Yep. I'd start this again. Yeah, it is. And then she does it with me as well. Yep. Jamie, we could talk probably for about 10 more days nonstop without even taking a breath. Jamie Edelbrock (57:31.49) Yeah, yes, because you're modeling it. Yep, same. I know it's been so good to talk with you and just revisit our friendship. love this. Dr. Cam (57:47.951) I know we will do it. We'll do it offline as well. So Jamie tell people how they can find you. Jamie Edelbrock (57:54.478) Sure, yeah, you can go to jamieettelbrock.com that has links to my books and links to my social media. I'm on Instagram, it's Tangled That Book. And there you'll see, that's where I'm probably the most active. Every once in a while I'll do a blog post if my heart feels like it. But yeah, I think Instagram is probably the best way to get a hold of me, Tangled That Book. Dr. Cam (58:16.755) Yeah, I love your content. It's beautiful. One thing that you want people to what we've talked to cover so much, what is one thing you would like people to walk away with from this? Jamie Edelbrock (58:30.446) I really think it is help yourself so you can help your kids. I think that's the main thing because kids are going to struggle. You are going to have that. If your kids aren't struggling then they're hiding something from you. And so it is very important to have a strong foundation and having your mental health. and emotions in check. So when that time comes, you can help them exactly how they need to be helped. Dr. Cam (59:01.285) I love that our job is not to prevent them from struggling. Our job is to be able to make sure we're strong enough to help them and support them. About the Show: The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam #MentalHealthMatters #TeenAnxietySupport…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

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Co-Parenting Through the Teen Years: Strategies for Unity and Connection 50:01

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In this episode, Dr. Cam is joined by parenting coaches Kyle and Sarah Wester to explore the challenges of co-parenting and the conflicts that arise from differing parenting styles. They dive into the importance of communication, understanding, and personal accountability, offering real-world strategies for resolving conflicts and strengthening family dynamics. The Westers share personal experiences on how external voices can facilitate change and how intentional conversations can lead to a more connected and harmonious parenting approach. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE The hidden reason parenting conflicts escalate—and how to stop it Why your past shapes your parenting style (without you realizing it) The single most powerful shift that improves co-parenting communication How to stop blaming each other and start working as a team The surprising way external perspectives can transform your parenting approach 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Parenting conflicts often stem from unconscious beliefs and past experiences Open and honest communication is crucial to resolving disagreements Setting shared parenting goals creates a more unified approach Kids often feel responsible for their parents’ conflicts—without realizing it Taking personal accountability leads to positive change in family dynamics 🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Help other parents find the support they need! 🚀 Share your favorite episode, leave a rating and review, and let me know what topics you’d love to hear next. Your feedback fuels more practical, insightful episodes just for you! 🙌 🔔 Hit Follow so you never miss a solution-packed episode! RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE FREE WORKBOOK: Parenting Together : artofraisinghumans.com/together EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 Navigating Parenting Conflicts 04:37 Understanding Parenting Styles and Backgrounds 10:44 The Importance of Openness in Communication 16:02 The Role of External Voices in Parenting 18:43 Setting Goals for Parenting 23:20 Taking Accountability in Parenting 24:50 The Role of Encouragement in Parenting 27:00 Understanding Parental Roles and Expectations 29:40 Modeling Behavior: The Impact on Children 31:12 Navigating Conflicts and Differences in Parenting 33:41 The Importance of Open Communication 35:20 Taking Responsibility for Parenting Styles 36:38 Empowering Parents to Change 39:20 Overcoming Blame in Parenting 41:25 The Power of Personal Accountability 43:28 Embracing Change and Growth in Parenting CONNECT WITH THE GUESTS: The Westers Website: Artofraisinghumans.com Facebook: @artofraisinghumans Instagram: @artofraisinghumans YouTube: @artofraisinghumans CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:01) Hey, welcome back, parents. I'm looking forward to today's conversation because we're tackling a common challenge—getting on the same page as your spouse or co-parent. I talk to so many couples who have completely different approaches to discipline and communication, which, as you can imagine, creates resentment, frustration, and conflict—not just between the parents, but for their kids too. Today, I'm excited to introduce my guests, Kyle and Sarah Wester. They are licensed professional counselors, parenting coaches, and the founders of Art of Raising Humans, a podcast dedicated to parenting. They also have three preteens and teens, so they don’t just teach it—they live it. Welcome, Kyle and Sarah! Kyle and Sarah Wester (00:52) Thank you so much for having us! Dr. Cam (00:59) We love your dynamic. Tell us a little about how you got started with your podcast and The Art of Raising Humans. Kyle and Sarah Wester (01:07) Well, it really started with Sarah. She has an incredible way of helping kids and parents, and I was the one working with families daily in private practice here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. When I’d hit a wall with a parent, I’d come home, ask Sarah for advice, and she’d offer these brilliant insights. I’d take her suggestions back to my clients, and they’d say, "That was amazing! How did you come up with that?" Eventually, I started getting invited to speak at churches, schools, and events. I wanted Sarah to be part of it, but every time we tried speaking together, it was tricky—we kept stepping on each other’s words. That’s when I had the idea to start a podcast. We decided to record in our master closet, thinking, "Why not? Let's figure this out." Sarah Wester (02:03) It was a challenge at first because Kyle is so much more extroverted than I am, but we both have years of experience working with families in different ways. Our goal was to share our knowledge and support families in building stronger, more connected relationships. We also noticed that parenting conflicts were damaging relationships between couples. Parents were approaching situations differently, which makes sense because they’re different people. But instead of seeing these differences as opportunities to grow, they became sources of tension. We even struggled with this in our own parenting—questioning each other’s choices and feeling frustrated. Dr. Cam (03:08) Wait, you don’t have it all figured out perfectly? Kyle and Sarah Wester (03:24) Not at all! And it’s tough for kids too. No child wants their parents fighting over them. But so often, kids in therapy feel like they’re the problem because their parents are constantly arguing about how to handle them. Dr. Cam (04:13) I see that all the time—kids feeling responsible for their parents' conflicts. Opposites may attract, but when parents have opposite approaches to parenting, it doesn’t go well for anyone. I often feel like I’m doing marriage counseling rather than parent coaching! Kyle and Sarah Wester (04:19) Exactly. Every parent brings their own personality, upbringing, and automatic parenting habits into the mix—many of which are deeply ingrained from childhood. Often, parents don’t even realize how much of their parenting is on autopilot until conflict arises. This can create confusion for kids. They learn which parent will say yes and which will say no, which can lead to frustration and inconsistency. The household tension builds, and by the time kids are teens, patterns are already set. Teenagers are smart—they learn the "dance." They know how each parent will react and adjust accordingly. Parents often feel manipulated, but really, their kids are just figuring out the system. If they know Mom is more lenient about certain things, they go to her instead of Dad. It’s not manipulation—it’s intelligence. The challenge is that parents don’t always recognize these patterns until they’re deeply ingrained. The key is learning how to work together as a team, rather than feeling like you’re on opposing sides. Dr. Cam (05:45) Absolutely. So what are the most common parenting conflicts you see when it comes to raising teens together? Kyle And Sara Wester (05:59) Man, I wish I could have addressed this 10 years ago, but now we're dealing with it. The dance steps are so established among the couple and the family that it's hard to learn new ones. I don't think it's impossible, but one of the biggest challenges is that their brains have literally been wired to perceive the other person in the marriage or the child in a certain way. It's like those dance steps are just on autopilot. As soon as the conflict starts, it's like the music happens, and we immediately fall into those steps. Dr. Cam (06:30) Yeah, and then complain about it. "They always do this!" What I find is that each parent is determined to convince the other that they're right, rather than figuring out: What do I do that works well? What do you do that works well? And—most importantly—what works best with our teenager? Because that matters more than our parenting styles. We're coming in with different backgrounds and beliefs, fighting over this, fighting with our teens. We assume they're manipulating us because they're smart. But they can't manipulate us if we don't let them, FYI. So what's the first step? What do we do? Like, I'm right. How do I convince him that he needs to change? Kyle And Sara Wester (07:16) The first step is openness. If one of you is completely unbending, you've already hit a wall. Kyle uses this analogy a lot: open hand vs. closed hand. If I come in with a closed fist—believing there's no chance the other person is bringing value, that they're completely wrong, that my teenager is the one who needs to change—that's only going to lead to conflict. You have to come in with an open hand. What are they bringing to the table? What do I need to hear? What do I need to understand? I love this example because Sarah is not a yeller. But I definitely can be. In my home, yelling was completely normal. It was how we communicated. To me, not yelling felt like weakness. If you really care about something, you raise your voice. At first, Sarah was caught off guard by this. She didn’t expect it in our home. But what really helped shift me—this may not happen with everyone, so it’s not a magic wand—was that Sarah approached me with an open hand. She tried to understand that for me, raising my voice wasn’t about being aggressive or mean—it was a sign that I cared. Just like yelling for a sports team, right? Me yelling at the ref means I care about my team. It sounds silly, but that’s how I saw it. Dr. Cam (08:28) Weird. Kyle And Sara Wester (08:51) Yeah! But Sarah was able to say, "Okay, I can see that. I understand that’s how you think. But is there another way you could express that passion without yelling?" That opened my mind. I went from a closed fist to an open hand. I started to realize that my words had power—even when I didn’t raise my voice. In fact, my kids often listened more when I spoke calmly. Dr. Cam (09:50) What I’m hearing is that we often assume a negative intention. If your spouse yells, it’s easy to think, They’re trying to be a bad parent. But they’re not. They’re trying to be the best parent they know how to be. So if we start from the assumption that they’re doing their best, and we seek to understand why they approach parenting the way they do, that shifts things. Now, what if one parent is open, but the other is completely closed off? How do you help the one who wants to change if their partner refuses? Kyle And Sara Wester (10:29) Yeah, that’s a real challenge. There was a time in our marriage when it felt like that. You’d think that having a counseling degree and working with families would make me more open, but it actually made me more closed. I thought, Hey, Sarah, you think you know what you’re doing, but I’m a professional too. I actually don’t think we need to do it that way. Sarah did her best to love me, be patient with me, and keep coming to me with an open hand. But honestly, what helped me the most was hearing it from someone else. By chance, I went to a conference where Dr. Becky Bailey, who teaches Conscious Discipline, basically said the same things Sarah had been telling me—but in a different way. And suddenly, it clicked. I called Sarah from Orlando, Florida, and said, "I need to change what I’m doing. I need to be more open to this." So sometimes, it takes a different voice saying the same message in a new way. With dads who are really closed off, I like to show them the brain science. That’s what Dr. Bailey did for me. She explained what happens in a child’s brain when they’re scared—when you’re yelling at them, they literally cannot be open and receptive to learning. Dr. Cam (12:14) Really shocking. Kyle And Sara Wester (12:31) Yeah! It was shocking to me too. Dr. Cam (12:31) Or flight, right? They're shut down. But it is interesting because I think we know that, but it's not something we stop and think about often when we're parenting. We were raised to believe that yelling makes kids listen. Kyle And Sara Wester The thing I would say to those couples listening—where one person is really open and doing the work—is that Sarah just kept being patient. She kept throwing more and more resources and opportunities my way to hear different voices. But it was never a demand. It was never, "You need to do this." It always felt like, "Hey, I know you love our kids." I really felt that from her. She truly believed I loved them. Even though what I was doing didn't seem loving to her at times, she still believed there was something in me that wanted to shift, that wanted to change. I’m really thankful for her patience and for experts like Dr. Becky Bailey and others who finally broke through to me. They helped open me up to the point where I was all in. And once that happened—once both people move toward that— Man, our marriage got so much better. The conversations at night stopped being, "Why are you doing this?" and became, "How did you stay calm in that moment?" I started really admiring Sarah and the way she handled things differently than I did. It wasn’t about me becoming her, but I definitely saw things in her that I wanted to learn. And Sarah, in turn, saw things in me that she wanted as well. Dr. Cam (13:56) I love that. Sarah, how in the world did you stay patient with Kyle when he was not listening to you? Kyle And Sara Wester (14:18) I know! What was wrong with him? Dr. Cam (14:25) Well, I'm serious. That’s a tough position—watching the father of your kids treat them in a way you don’t want them to be treated. Let's be real. How do you adapt to that? Kyle And Sara Wester (14:32) So, I will say a few things. He was not harming them. I work with families, and if a parent is harming their kids, that's a different story. I feel like I need to say that because this is not that situation. But he was doing things that I knew weren’t good for their relationship. I knew they weren’t good for them. I knew we wanted healthy children. We wanted a close relationship with them. We had similar goals, but his way of getting there just wasn’t going to work. I had worked with families, and I believed in him. But did I have moments where I thought, "Okay, how long do I wait?" Yeah, I definitely had those thoughts. I want to throw that out there because sometimes we're in tough spots in relationships. Sometimes, the other person just isn’t going to open up or join forces with you. I’m not saying he had to become me or that I had it all figured out. We just needed to come together and have conversations. And sometimes, you need an outside voice to help with that. For me, it was about recognizing that as long as he was willing to sit at the table—as long as we could get some conversation going—that was enough. He went to this conference. He listened. And that gave me hope. We need outside voices sometimes. When you're in such a close relationship, fear and vulnerability can get in the way. But when you hear it from someone else, that’s not there. He didn’t feel manipulated by them. He wasn’t wondering if they had an agenda. He could just be open and hear what they had to say. And we had to have a lot of intentional conversations. It wasn’t just, "I hope we talk about this." We had to intentionally ask: What are our goals? How are we going to get there? Is this actually getting us there? And you know, Dr. Cam, there was a lot of shame that made it hard to have these conversations with Sarah. Growing up, I didn’t have a great relationship with my dad. I spent most of my childhood saying, "I’m not going to be like my dad." But then I became a dad, and it felt like I was becoming him. It was like something about having kids triggered these patterns in me. It makes sense—my brain was wired by what I saw growing up. I would talk to them in ways that Sarah had never experienced from her dad. So for her, it was completely surprising. And when she didn’t just go along with it, it triggered fear and shame in me. I thought, "Oh no, I am becoming my dad. Oh no, Sarah and I are going to have a marriage like my parents." And that’s not what I wanted. So when I heard an outside voice, the shame wasn’t there clouding my ability to listen. I wasn’t getting judged or shamed at that conference. I was able to just hear what they were saying, which helped me open up and actually take in the information. That’s what helped me change. Dr. Cam (18:01) That shame—feeling judged or criticized—is a big reason we don’t want to listen to the other person. Admitting we need to change feels like failure. But none of us know how to do this. And it’s okay not to know. That’s not something to feel bad about. We’re all doing the best we can, but we can always do better. You were talking about your goals. This is something we often don't stop and think about or discuss—what is our goal as a parent? What are we trying to achieve? We tend to react throughout the day instead of considering our direction. Does that help? What type of goals do you set to get on the same page? Kyle and Sara Wester (18:45) That was part of the early work we did. You don't just fall into this—you have to say, okay, we need to have this conversation. Where are we trying to go as a family? Where are we trying to go with our children? We started sitting down intentionally and having these conversations, which led to others that were so helpful in our journey. We had to ask, what do we want from our family? At first, it's messy. But as you keep having the conversation, it becomes clearer. Ultimately, if we boil it all down, we want a great relationship with our children. We want to have fun, enjoy them, and hope they enjoy us. But how do you get there? That led to conversations like, why do you yell? If we have this goal, how do we reach it? You have to be curious. If I come in saying, "Why are you yelling?" that’s not helpful. Instead, we ask, "How is yelling going to get us to our goal?" We also challenge each other—"Why are you listening when she’s throwing a tantrum? Why are you holding her instead of sending her away?" These questions helped us understand our parenting choices and align them with our goals. Dr. Cam (20:18) Or, "You shouldn’t be yelling." Kyle and Sara Wester (20:34) Right. We had conversations with curiosity—why are we doing what we’re doing? How will this help us reach our goal? When we started our private practice or podcast, we set goals, a mission statement, a vision. But most parents don’t do that when raising kids. They just have them. What do we hope they say about us when they leave home at 18? If I don’t have goals in parenting, I’ll always be reactive. I’ll end up resenting the parent I became, feeling like the kids made me that way. When our first two kids were little, and we weren’t sleeping much, I felt like I was becoming my dad. It felt like the kids were making me that way. But then I asked myself, "Who do I want to be as a dad? Do I even know what that looks like?" Maybe Sarah is in my life to help me become that dad. Maybe the conflicts with the kids are opportunities to practice being that dad. Dr. Cam (22:03) That’s beautiful. And you took accountability for your role as a parent. I hear a lot, "If my child behaved, I’d be a great parent." But it doesn’t work that way. You decided it’s up to you to have the relationship you want with your kids. Many parents say, "I want my child to be respectful." That’s a behavior you’re trying to control—it’s about your personal needs, not the bigger goal of who you want your teen to become as an adult. That’s a reactive approach. We also want our spouse to parent a certain way, trying to control their parenting. How do we take accountability for our role, regardless of what our co-parent does? Kyle and Sara Wester (23:20) Here’s an example: My daughter played soccer. My dad coached me in soccer, but most of my memories of that were negative—him being upset, disappointed, yelling. When my daughter started playing, I was excited, but Sarah noticed I was yelling from the sidelines, saying things like, "Focus! What are you doing?" She was five or six. I had this ridiculous thought—"Why is she making me act like my dad? If she focused more, I wouldn’t be like this." But she wasn’t doing anything to me. She didn’t even know what her grandpa was like. I had to step back and ask, "What kind of dad do I want to be on the sidelines?" Not just in soccer, but in life. I wrote it down—what does that dad look like? He encourages, he’s excited to see his daughter play, he appreciates that she’s healthy and active. Now, her not performing perfectly became an opportunity for me to practice being that dad. But I needed conversations with Sarah—"How do you not yell? Doesn't it frustrate you?" She said, "Sure, but I’m just happy to see her play." That helped me shift my mindset. So I had to decide—who am I going to be at that soccer game? Who am I going to be in general? And then intentionally show up as that person. Dr. Cam (26:38) I love that. Instead of blaming your child for the parent you are, you asked, "What kind of parent does my child need?" Because every child is different. We also blame our co-parent. One thing I hear often is resentment— "I’m tired of being the bad guy. I’m tired of being the parent, which feels like the bad guy." When did being a parent become synonymous with being the bad guy? Kyle and Sara Wester (27:08) Yeah, we’ve had those conversations. Sometimes you don’t even realize what belief system you’re operating from until a conflict arises. We have these unspoken expectations about roles—what a mom should do, what a dad should do, what a child should do. I was raised to obey immediately, not ask questions—that was considered disrespectful. So I automatically expect my child to do the same. But we have to pause and ask, "Why do I think that?" Instead of blindly following the box we were given, we need to decide what kind of parent we want to be. We can’t control who our child is. They’re not a sculpture we’re molding into perfection by 18. Our job is to show up as the parent we want to be. Kids learn more from what we model than what we say. Dr. Cam (29:15) Exactly. When parents say, "I want my child to be respectful," I ask, "How do you model respect?" And they just look at each other like, "Crap, we don’t." Kyle and Sara Wester (29:40) Right. And I hope your listeners hear this—these conflicts with our kids reveal the hidden stories guiding our decisions. Without them, we might never even realize those stories are there. Kyle and Sara Wester (30:19) And it's because that conflict happened—not that we handled it perfectly. We probably handled it in a really negative way. But in the follow-up with each other as a couple or with the kids, I was able to tell them, "In that moment, I blew up at you because in my home, dad had to be the bad guy. You see how mom was handling it that way. In my mind, I was thinking, 'Mom's being the nice person, the good cop, and I have to be the bad cop.'" Dr. Cam (30:21) Quit. Kyle and Sara Wester (30:43) The kids were like, "That's kind of weird. I didn't think that was happening." And Sarah said, "That didn’t happen in my home, but in that moment, that’s exactly what was happening." Without that conflict, we never would’ve had the opportunity to reveal that and look at it. We had to ask: What part do I want that story to play in my life? Do I still want it to guide me, or do I want to put it away? That’s key to understanding your story because you try to get your spouse to fit the role you’ve defined for them. I've seen it with parents, where the mom says, "I have to be the bad guy, and dad gets to be the fun one." Then you talk to the dad, and he says, "I don't agree with your parenting style." Dr. Cam (31:41) "I don't think you need to be the bad guy." And they're like, "You do have to be." That’s where the complete differences come in. But the focus, and one thing I want to reiterate, is that you have common goals. What are you trying to achieve as parents? Then the conversation shifts from what you did or didn’t do to, "Did what we do get us closer to what we’re trying to achieve with our child?" Kyle and Sara Wester (31:47) Every listener wants those kinds of conversations with their teenager. Everyone wants to sit down and talk about what kind of human they want to become and their goals. But if the kids don’t see us doing that with others... Not only do Sarah and I do this with each other, but we’ve done it with our families and friends. Many times, I’ve had conflicts with friends where we didn’t see eye to eye. I tell the kids, "I'm going to have a conversation with this friend." My goal is always to be open-handed. I want to better understand their perspective so we can come closer together. I really believe my friend cares for me, and I don’t think what they said was meant to hurt me. I don’t think they wanted to hurt me. So, they see us model that. We want them to do the same with us for the rest of their lives. But if they never see us do it, it’s unrealistic to expect them to do it with us. Dr. Cam (33:09) If you’re not listening and respecting each other, they won’t learn to listen or respect either of you. I see a lot of kids treating their parents the same way the other parent treats them. Then they say, "My kid is becoming my husband or my wife." They're modeling what they see. What do you want them to learn? When conversations are about winning and being right instead of understanding, that’s when the teen learns that it’s about who has the better argument, who can intimidate better, or who can get louder. The point of these conversations shouldn’t be to drive us further apart but to understand each other better. Kyle and Sara Wester (34:07) One of our core beliefs as a couple is that I believe Sarah cares about the kids, and I believe she’s doing the best she can. I believe the reason Sarah sees things differently than I do is to benefit me, not to make it harder for me. And when we come together, we hold it with open hands and realize it’s actually a strength that we both see things differently. When we come together, we broaden our understanding and perspective of what’s happening with the kids and how we can handle it. Instead of just doing it Sarah’s way or my way, we create a whole new path that’s ours. Dr. Cam (34:53) Yeah. And it also takes into account who your kids are. The older they get, the more they need to have input on what type of parent we are based on their needs. We often try to make our kid the kind of kid we need as parents, rather than being the parent they needs. We often try to make our kid the kind of kid we need as parents, rather than being the parent they need. For the teen we already have. And that’s a hard thing. Both parents need to be on the same page, but I’m talking about mature adults who care about one another and are open to listening. I don’t see a lot of that. A lot of people are well-intentioned, but due to their childhoods, they’re stunted in their ability to take accountability and listen to others. I know everyone says, "Well, the way I grew up, I turned out fine." But no. We’re trying to prevent these issues so our kids don’t need therapy for parent issues or struggle with relationships. So, what do we do if we’re in a relationship where we’re not opening up to each other? What if one spouse is too set in their ways? How do we create the relationship with our kids despite that? Kyle and Sara Wester (36:43) Anytime I’m dealing with couples like that, Dr. Cam, I encourage the parent to avoid the mistake of trying to balance the other parent by going to the opposite extreme. I tell them to still create a vision for the home they want to have and the kind of parent they want to be. Then, regardless of what the other person is doing, they need to be confident in that vision. Once you do that, you can set healthy boundaries. You don’t need to balance the other parent out. You need to create the home you want to have. Be confident in the parent you want to be. Then, you can set healthy boundaries for yourself, the other person, and the kids. You might need a parent coordinator to help you. You could say, "I need a parent coordinator because I’m not at my best when I’m discussing these things." The point is, don’t try to balance the other person out. Create the parent you want to be, and then whatever they do, they’ll do. Trust that healthy actions will grow healthy results. Even if the other side is unhealthy, your healthy actions will lead to a healthier outcome for your kids. Dr. Cam (38:44) I love that. Kyle and Sara Wester (38:59) We hear a lot of parents blame the other parent for their poor relationship with their teen, saying, "It’s because of you. You’re turning them against me." Dr. Cam (39:23) That I have a poor relationship, you’re turning them against me or making me look bad. Kyle and Sara Wester (39:29) Yes, we hear that a lot. But regardless of anyone else’s actions, you have to decide who you’re going to be in your relationship with your child. Dr. Cam (39:34) With you. Kyle and Sara Wester (39:58) You could have a coworker or anyone. Even if you believe they’re sabotaging you, you can still show up as who you want to be in your relationship with your child. It’s not just about who I want to be—it’s about what my child needs from me. You can choose the kind of human you want to be, even if your parents are being ridiculous, even if your parents aren't listening to you. I remember a moment as a kid where we came home from church, and my dad wanted me to mow the lawn. Back then, you wore church clothes, so I had my church clothes on. He told me, "You're going to mow this lawn." And I said, "Dad, I'm going to go inside and change." Dr. Cam (41:31): Yeah. Now, you go in sweats. Kyle and Sara Wester (41:55): Exactly. I told him, "I'm going to change my clothes." And he said, "Stop being a dumb ass." It was the first time he’d ever cursed at me, and I looked at him and said, "Hey, Dad, I’ve never cursed at you. I don’t want you cussing at me." And that moment felt really good. I realized I didn’t have to be the child he thought I was. Dr. Cam (42:07): You saw it as disrespect, but also as advocating for yourself. Kyle and Sara Wester (42:22): Exactly. When Sarah was talking, I thought about that moment. It's like she said—take your power back. I’ve had parents in my office blaming their 10-year-old or their spouse for their behavior. And I tell them, “Why are we talking? Why don’t you just leave? If you're a victim to everything they’re doing, it’s pointless for us to talk.” I’m talking to you because I believe you can do something about it. You can change this, regardless of how they’re acting. You always have the power to choose who you are in that moment. Dr. Cam (42:59): Yeah, 100%. I think that’s the hardest part for parents. They think it's their teens’ job to change, but it’s really about them. I had a client the other day who kept asking, "How fast can you fix my son? How long will it take to fix him?" I said, "It’s up to you. How long do you think it’ll take for you to make the changes you need?" It’s not about me fixing your kid. You’re the one who has to change the most here. What are you willing to do? Kyle and Sara Wester (43:33): Yes, exactly. Once you own that as a parent, you realize it’s not about blaming someone else. It’s about realizing your own power. You can change a lot of this. I love to point out to parents how they can approach things differently. Like, instead of yelling, what if you just ran around the house and did laps? Dr. Cam (43:58): I love that. Kyle and Sara Wester (44:06): What would the kid do? They’d be confused! That’s what’s fun—once you realize your power, you see that yelling is actually the weakest thing you can do. It’s what anyone can do in a crisis. Use your creativity and come up with a different response. Shame and guilt get in the way, but if you face it, you’ll realize we all mess up. Dr. Cam (44:16): It’s so hard, though. Kyle and Sara Wester (44:36): None of us are perfect, and that’s okay. Join the crowd. But then take your power back. It’s so empowering. We often feel helpless when it’s up to our teen, but we’re not. We have so much power to show up and do what we need to do as a parent. And once you own that, it becomes easier to say, “I messed up again, but I can change it.” You’re not just sitting on the sidelines anymore. Dr. Cam (45:05): Exactly! It’s frustrating when we try to change our teens and they’re not cooperating. But it has nothing to do with them; it’s about you and your spouse. Kyle and Sara Wester (45:12): Yeah, that’s a great point. Kyle and Sara Wester (45:12): Once you’re in the blame mode, you start blaming everything—pets, traffic, anything. You can give your power away to anyone and everyone. I like to take my power back. And when I start getting loud or trying to dominate, that’s when I know I’m giving my power away. It’s a sign I feel weak and powerless. I need to prove I’m strong, but really it just shows I think the kid has the power over me. Kyle and Sara Wester (46:36): When I was younger, if I wanted to avoid mowing the lawn, all I had to do was mow it badly. My dad would get mad and say, "What are you doing?" I’d just play dumb, and before I knew it, he was mowing the lawn for me! I’d sit down, drink lemonade, and think, "Dad, why do you fall for this every time?" Dr. Cam (46:17): Ha! Yeah, I wouldn’t manipulate you if it wasn’t so easy. Kyle and Sara Wester (46:55): Exactly! If I got grounded for a week, I’d keep pushing until he grounded me for months. I knew he couldn’t stick to it for that long. So, yeah, you can find us at our website, artofraisinghumans.com. It has everything—blogs, videos, podcasts. You can also email me at Kyle@artofraisinghumans.com to set up a free 30-minute Zoom call. We’ll talk about your issues and see if we’re a good fit. Dr. Cam (47:30): I’ll put all that in the show notes. What’s the big takeaway you want parents to leave with? Kyle and Sara Wester (47:41): For me, the biggest takeaway is that if you can be open and receptive, change is possible. Kids want a relationship with you. If you’re open and can open your fist, there’s so much to receive. I’ve seen so many people change—people I never thought would. It’s possible, but it requires vision and a desire to change as a parent. Dr. Cam (48:27): Yeah, that’s amazing. It takes humility, accountability, and maturity, which is really hard for a lot of people. Kyle and Sara Wester (48:32): Yeah, and I’d add that knowing your personal goals is so empowering. I knew what I wanted for my family, and that became my guiding light. It helped anchor me as we navigated all of this. Dr. Cam (49:04): I love that. So empowering. Thank you both so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Kyle and Sara Wester (49:13): Thanks so much, Dr. Cam! We appreciate it. ABOUT THE SHOW The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast delivers real-world strategies, expert advice, and actionable tips to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen. Whether you're struggling with teen behavior, communication, or motivation, each episode is packed with practical solutions to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. #parentingteens #drcamcaswell #co-parenting #raisingteens #familydynamics #communication…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

1
How to Talk Politics with Your Teen in Today's Charged Climate 23:34

vor 8 weeks23:34

23:34

In this episode, Dr. Cam Caswell and Lindsay Cormack discuss the challenges of engaging teens in political discussions, the decline of civics education, and the importance of fostering critical thinking and open dialogue. Lindsay, author of How to Raise a Citizen , shares her insights on how parents can guide their children through the complexities of political discourse and media literacy. They emphasize the importance of parents modeling engagement, curiosity, and empowering their teens to become informed, responsible citizens in today's fast-paced media environment. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE How to effectively engage your teen in political discussions and build open dialogue. Why civics education has declined and how parents can fill the gap in teaching their teens about politics and civic responsibility. The importance of critical thinking in the digital age and how parents can help their teens navigate information overload. How media algorithms impact teens’ political views and how parents can help their teens see beyond echo chambers. Practical tips for encouraging curiosity and helping teens develop a deeper understanding of political issues. 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Engage in Political Conversations Early: Starting conversations with your teen about politics is essential for fostering critical thinking and helping them understand complex issues. Civics Education is Crucial: Civics education has been declining in schools, but parents have the power to teach their teens about the importance of voting and civic participation. Help Your Teen Navigate Information: Teens are bombarded with information on social media and news. By encouraging critical thinking, you can help them evaluate sources and form informed opinions. Model Political Engagement: It’s essential for parents to model curiosity and engagement in political issues. Your teen will learn by watching how you approach important topics. Practice Listening in Political Discussions: Active listening is a key component of meaningful political conversations. It’s important to not just talk but also to listen and understand your teen’s perspective 🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫 🔔 Remember to hit Follow so you never miss another solution-packed episode! 🙌 RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Lindsay Cormack's book: How to Raise a Citizen How to Raise a Citizen: A Parent’s Guide to Teaching Political Engagement EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 Navigating Political Conversations with Teens 02:29 The Decline of Civics Education in Schools 04:32 The Importance of Open Political Discussions 06:31 Building Critical Thinking Skills in Teens 10:08 The Role of Media Algorithms in Political Views 12:49 Encouraging Curiosity and Open Dialogue with Teens 15:54 Essential Knowledge for Young Citizens 18:14 Fostering Critical Thinking and Listening Skills in Teens 21:21 How Parents Can Empower Teens to Engage in Politics CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Lindsay Cormack Website: www.howtoraiseacitizen.com Facebook: @lindsey.cormack Instagram: @howtoraiseacitizen LinkedIn: Lindsay Cormack X: @DCInbox CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:01) Have you ever tried talking politics with your teen only for it to spiral into a heated argument or leave you wondering where in the world are they even getting these ideas? It's frustrating when their opinions feel so different from your own and you may worry that they are heading down the wrong path. But no matter how hard you try to tuck reason into them, nothing seems to get through. This sounds familiar, you're not alone, and we are going to talk about that I have Lindsay Cormack, an associate professor of political science with me today. And Lindsay specializes in helping teens think critically and engage thoughtfully with the world around them. She's even written the book on it, How to Raise a Citizen. Lindsay is here to share practical strategies to turn those tricky political conversations into meaningful and even peaceful discussions. Welcome, Lindsay. Lindsey Cormack (00:50) Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to talking with you. Dr. Cam (00:53) Yeah, I'm happy to have you here. So tell us first of all, I love the backstory. What got you interested in talking politics, particularly with our kids? Lindsey Cormack (01:02) Well, I've been a college professor for 10 years and I work at a school that primarily serves engineering students called Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken, New Jersey. We do plenty of other things, but that's our general population. And so I have these students who are so bright and they're so good at doing school and they go on to like really great careers. But something that I've found as someone who teaches political science is that they come in really not knowing very much. They don't really understand how the government is set up. They don't know what their own powers are in it. And this is something where at first I thought like, you maybe that's just particular to engineering students. But, you know, after a decade of looking at that and talking with other people and doing research on, you know, how much our 18 year olds actually know, I've come to realize like it is a nationwide problem. We graduate most of our high school students without a rudimentary understanding of the government system that they're in. And so this became a project for me because I don't want college kids to feel not powerful. I don't want them to feel jaded already. I don't want them to feel turned off by a system because I know that say what you will about US democracy. It's one of the best decision-making frameworks that's ever existed in the history of the world. And our children will do better if they understand that system. So that's what got me inspired and involved to do it. I didn't know when I set out that this was going to be a parenting book. I thought this might be a book that was like, here's how some states do it, here's how other states do it. But in the course of researching it, I realized no state is doing it that well. And if we want to change things, we're really going to have to start in another level, and that's going to be in the home. Dr. Cam (02:24) Why do you think that kids aren't as informed now about, or have they ever been informed about how the government works? Lindsey Cormack (02:39) So it's a really hard question. It's not like there was this golden era of time where everyone was all conversant on how government ins and out were. That's not real. But it was the case that we did have more civics instruction time in our schools, and that has been decreasing over my lifetime, your lifetime, my mom's lifetime, and so it's been going down from the 1940s onwards. And so we are at this place now where if you look at test scores of eighth graders on their sort of like civic readiness, they are the exact same now as they were in 1998. And so the people who are in charge of parenting today are, you know, no smarter, no better. But I think a lot of us are all really frustrated and it's like, okay, well, if we haven't made any gains in how we're teaching you, we probably need to do something else because we see these same sort of results time after time where the adults in the room now, we can say we're going to prioritize this in a different way. So it is, it is the lowest that of all the classroom things, it is the one that gets the least amount of curricular time. And part of that trade off is STEM. Part of that is sort of this idea that we're going to be pushing other things into a day. And so it's not like there was a golden era, but we know that it's down versus the past and we were seeing the results in our indicators. Dr. Cam (03:33) Well, I'm wondering too, because the world obviously is very polarized right now when it comes to politics. And I know my daughter was talking about it she was taking a government class and she was so excited about talking. And my daughter is one of these kids that have been watching the news since she was like little. I don't even watch the news as much as she does, but she loves it. So she was so excited to go in and talk about it. And they would not talk about the current election going on right now because it was too politically divisive. And, you know, I think that right there is a signal of are we focusing on the wrong thing? Lindsey Cormack (04:32) Okay, so that is like something I hear all over the country is, and you know, and I kind of have a lot of thoughts on why that is the case, but here's the thing. We only get like four or five elections with our kids until they become voting eligible citizens themselves. And so we really only get like four or five windows of training opportunities. And if we say like, you can't talk about this, we can't learn about this, we can't think about this, then we're really sort of hampering their ability to do this when they're older. And we see this, we see this in sort of the data on like who's registered to vote, who turns out to vote, who sort of knows things. Everyone's playing catch up from the time they're like 20 to 60, and then they have 20 years where they're like in their like, you know, really powerful political place, and it probably shouldn't be like that. But I understand why schools have been hard sites to do this work in. I mean, part of it is to blame with ourselves. When we were doing the research for this book, we interviewed teachers in nearly every US state. And something that we heard throughout the country is that teachers operate in sort of a constrained environment where they're afraid to say the wrong thing. because then someone's gonna go home, tell a parent, that parent's gonna get mad, they're gonna email them, or the principal, or they're gonna have, know, the whole PTA gets mad. And so they're in a tricky position. And it's not that I don't think they can do this work. I think there's plenty of really good social studies teachers out here who can do this work. But I understand that their incentives are not always aligned to kind of get into that hard stuff because they don't want it to blow back. Dr. Cam (05:51) Yeah, that's really hard. And I think too with, and one of the things that I've heard with a lot of parents actually is that not that their kids don't know about it, but they have very strong opinions about everything that's going on because they're bombarded on social media and everywhere else with news without the critical thinking that goes along with it. And so they form these very strong opinions and then they get into arguments with their parents because the parents are like, I don't agree with that opinion. So how do we help our kids who are getting tons of information? How do we help them think about it critically? Lindsey Cormack (06:31) Yeah, this is a really hard and important question because the sort of media environment that our children and ourselves are in and kind of what it looks like we're going to be in for the foreseeable future is one where information comes at us and its job is sort of to persuade us by looking compelling. It doesn't necessarily have to be credible by like, understand who's writing this. I understand who funded this. It's just like, is it sleek enough to like trigger the parts of my brain to say like, that person knows what's happening or this is the right way to think about that. And so that's like a really hard environment for children to be raised in because they don't have any other assessment tools at their disposal. They're not having to grapple with like finding a different book or trying to figure out who's funding things. And so I think it's one of the very important things that we do as parents is to make sure that we don't just denigrate the stuff they're seeing because it's not like everything they're seeing is garbage, but it is to engage in it with them. And so something that I ask my daughter, I have a 12 year old who has like limited time to see things that I don't see. But I do ask her, I'm like, what are you hearing on this? What are you seeing on this? And then if it's something where she'll show me like Pinterest, I guess Pinterest is social media in its own way now. She'll show me like, here's what it is. And I think it's important for us to see it too instead of just missing it out of hand because it's not likely that we're gonna see the same things kind of ever. Our algorithms are just so different. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Cam (07:42) Yeah, we're on different sides of everything on social media, right? I love this. We see something that our kids are looking at and it is true. Like there's algorithms that'll feed them all kinds of stuff based off of one search. So they can go down rabbit holes that might go down very narrow opinionated places. And when you're on social media and that's all you see, it becomes what you believe everyone believes. How do we have conversations with them when they are like, this is what I see, this is what everyone is saying, because it's everyone in their feed is saying, how do we start that conversation to help break that down without shutting them down? Lindsey Cormack (08:27) Yeah, because we don't want them to feel like defensive. We want to like, you know, legitimate the things that they're coming to us with because we want them to keep coming to us. Something that I think is really important that's kind of tied up in all of this is a basic literacy in sort of like digital media. And I think it's sort of boring to kids, but we have to remind them, we have to let them know that they are seeing things. that whoever's putting in front of them believes it's gonna keep their attention or it's going to let them disassociate in a way where they can stay there and tell an ad place. And so we have to ask themselves, what are we doing here? What is it that keeps us here and why is it that this tool exists in the first place? We're not paying for this tool, so something else is being traded. it's your attention. it's the insights on what you're watching. So making sure that they understand the ecosystem that they're playing in and what they are, I think that's part one. But part two can be something that's maybe harder to do in a one day setting, but in a longer timeframe, is thinking about what you would see if your algorithm was different. And I'll give you an example that I did in my class. In my classroom this last year, I said to the kids, you know what, let's start two fake Instagrams. We're gonna start one with the seeds of some conservative words, we're gonna start one with the seeds of some liberal words. And I let them pick the list. I said, you guys pick one. And then at the end of class on Thursdays, we would watch about eight minutes of Instagram and see like, okay, what's happening on the liberal Instagram, what's happening on the conservative Instagram. And never once was there anything that was the exact same. Never once did we see the same content at all. And so I was like, okay, so we understand that we would be operating in different environments if this is what we saw before bed when we were scrolling or this is. It's just a different world. And because there's no crossover, it's just important that they sort of understand that blind spot that everyone has. It's not something that's particular to children. It's kind of particular to our entire media environment. No one's getting the same configuration of things. And so that's like part one is make sure they have to like have a full understanding of that. It's not everyone. It's everyone who's kind of like them. But even then, it's very individualized. Dr. Cam (10:18) Well, I think this is true for adults, quite frankly. And I'm not, I'm saying me too. Like we definitely feed in and we've got the confirmation bias where we're looking for things to confirm what we already believe. So it's very difficult for us to hear things that are different coming from our teens because we're very strong and solid in what we believe. And we want our kids to believe what's right, which is what we believe. Right? No? Lindsey Cormack (10:46) I mean, that's what we think. I I understand the whole enterprise of having more children or having children at all is like, hooray, I can like make more of me. I can like understand the world. They'll understand it in a similar way. But I actually don't think in political terms, I don't think that that necessarily should be the goal for two big reasons. Dr. Cam (10:53) I agree with you. I'm just saying that's, I think that's a lot of the straight. Yep. Lindsey Cormack (11:06) We want them to have the same values as us. Like that's why we decided to like let them live in our house for 18 years. Like hopefully they like take some of the ways that we see the world. But I think politically it's like it's kind of a fool's errand because if you look at the best social science research on this, it's about a coin toss that you can get a kid if you're like, you know, I'm a Democrat and I want to raise a little Democrat or I'm a Republican. I want to raise a little Republican. It's about 50 percent of the time that you'll get that. And if you push too hard, you risk either alienating them from the political process altogether. And they say like, I don't want to do this or. They say, you know what, I'm gonna rebel and I'm gonna be a Democrat or I'm gonna be Republican, whatever you're not. It also just doesn't really make sense because we know that the parties and the ideologies and the personalities are fluid and changing. And so the party that served you in your time that you were like a teenager or 20 and 30s might not be the one that serves or resonates or speaks to them. That's okay. Like that's okay. Both parties have strengths. Both parties have weaknesses. There's not one that's better than the other. That's why we have like a very persistent two party solution to what we're doing here because they both kind of like work in different ways. Dr. Cam (12:07) Yeah, I have found actually because my daughter loved, like she has been waiting to vote. She finally voted this year. She's been waiting to vote for years. I don't know what kids do that, but it's what I love is, is because of her curiosity, it's creating more curiosity in me. And so I'm actually learning more about the different sides because we're talking about them. So it's opening doors for me. Lindsey Cormack (12:18) That's great. Dr. Cam (12:36) because I'm allowing that curiosity of hers to come in rather than saying this is what it is. I'm like, you know, I've never thought of that. Let's go look at what that is. And it's been really eye opening in a lot of ways. Lindsey Cormack (12:49) Yeah, that makes a ton of sense to me. This is something, so the book that I wrote is called How to Raise a Citizen and Why It's Up to You to Do It. And the why it's up to you to do it is like, okay, parents, sorry, you gotta take this on. And when I'm talking with parents who have done this work and they start these conversations with their kids, they're like, I'm learning stuff too. I feel like I'm being raised as a citizen. I'm like, yeah, that's what's gonna happen. That's what discussion does. We give and take and we get different pieces. And I think you must, I mean, you know as a parent, you know as a professional in this space. Doing stuff with kids teaches us things about ourselves. It reflects things to us, it shows us stuff, and so it's always helpful. And the idea that this is a topic that's off limits or maybe they're not gonna be interested in, that's just not true. We just don't really give them a lot of opportunities to engage on it with us. Dr. Cam (13:32) Yeah, I think that's really important. you recommend watching the news with your kids? Lindsey Cormack (13:38) You know, everyone has different strategies here. I don't do that. But I don't say it's like a bad thing to do. I think the best thing you can do is make sure that you are dialed in and have an open line of communication so you understand what they are watching or if something's concerning them. It's not a practice in my house to have the news on. It would have been when I was like maybe younger with my dad. But yeah, that's not something I say like, yeah, you need to make sure you're doing that. Dr. Cam (14:04) Yeah, okay. I was just wondering if that was a good place to start the conversation. How do you recommend having those conversations with our kids? Because teenagers especially are going to be like, I don't want to talk about that with you. Lindsey Cormack (14:09) You gotta go to wherever they are. I think you have to let those entry points happen. And a lot of times, you're right, your teen isn't gonna wanna do that. And so a good time to do it is when you're not facing them head on, but when you're side by side. So that can be on a car commute. So you might have a radio on that says something, or it can be on a walk where you say, hey, have you heard anything about this? And sometimes you'll have stuff that your school's gonna send home. For instance, our school sent home stuff about a school shooting that happened in another state. And I was like, okay. There's an opportunity, I imagine that they might be talking about it. And so it's just sort of finding those entry points that make sense. Like if you had asked me, you know, like last year, should I talk to my kids about what's happened in Israel? It would be like, well, you know, if that's something that's gonna be in your community, if that's gonna be a conversation that's gonna happen, yeah, you don't wanna be the off limits person. But if you have like a five year old and you're not, know, in a community that's gonna have any sort of relation to this, I'm not sure that it makes sense to say like, hey, just so you know, this horrific, scary thing happened that you have no control of. Like, yeah, so you know your kids best, you gotta go where they're going, you have to understand what they wanna get into and not try to push something into it, because that's not what they wanna do. Dr. Cam (15:20) And I think with teenagers, it's interesting, a good place to start is just what have you heard about it? Because chances are really, really, really high. They've heard something. They may not understand it, but they've definitely heard something. And so being able to kind of correct that or not even just correct it, but just start there and go and let's explore that together and figure that out. What do we need to teach kids in order for them to be what do you think is the most important things for kids to understand? Lindsey Cormack (15:59) So I have five in the book that I say before your kids can get out and I can do them quickly with you. The first is that your kids need to know how to vote. And you might say like, they're going to learn it in schools. On average, they don't. In 2022, only a quarter of our 18-year-olds are registered to vote. So that is the thing that unlocks every other thing. Second thing is they need to understand the difference between primaries and general elections. And I know this sounds like it's kind of in the weeds, but in most parts of the country, and I mean this in the overwhelming majority of elections, the person who wins that primary is gonna win that election. We have very few competitive elections at the general election, so if you really care about who's gonna have this seat, it's usually gonna be decided in a primary, so they have to know that. I think they all should have read the Constitution at least once before they are 18. I think you might say, schools are doing that. They're not. Most of my college students have never read it. It's, you know, 19 pages long, and it's not something you sit down and say, we're reading this together, but in the course of a lifetime, I think it's good for them to have like a basic understanding of this. I think they need understand federalism. know, state government does different things than local, does different things than federal. So it's not just like, there's this nefarious people in DC doing all government stuff. It's like, it's your neighbors and your friends who are making zoning decisions and decisions on like, you know, what stoplights going to go up or if this is going to be a Stein, whatever. It's all that sort of quality of life, local area stuff. But I think one of the most important things and one that encompasses all of them. which is this ability to have a hard conversation because that is something that is so missing from the way that we sort of have schooling done. like, they're not really asked to be advocates. They're not really asked to, you know, fight or grapple or dig into some sort of topic that's hard and then come back and be like, OK, and that is what the practice is. So it's developing that muscle memory for hard or uncomfortable conversations of which politics offers a lot of opportunities. There's a lot of chances to do this and they just don't really get that in most of school because we don't focus that much on politics or government to begin with. It's mostly, we know some things, we're gonna teach you some things, please tell us those things back. And a lot of our politics curriculum looks like of like history, where they're like, okay, learn these things that happened 250 years ago, make sure you know them, now you're a citizen. Contemporary politics demands a lot more of us. It demands this like back and forth and flow of ideas, but they can't just learn it on their own. We gotta practice with them. We gotta show them what that is. We can't hide them from that, but we need to do it with them. Dr. Cam (18:14) Yeah, get from this a lot of it is general critical thinking. And this is one of those really important areas where critical thinking is important, but also listening. Because I think we do just in general, it seems like we do a lot of talking at and trying to convince is our conversations is convincing and it's not understanding. It's not putting those two pieces together and going, okay, if you strongly believe this and I like you as a person and you believe something very different than me, what are you understanding that I'm not understanding? Because you're not a bad person, so clearly you believe something that I'm not feeling or I don't get. What is that? What am I missing? And I think when we approach it that way, we learn so much more than just, you're wrong. Lindsey Cormack (19:11) I think that's absolutely right. And I do not fault any of our kids for being underdeveloped in their capacity to do this because I don't think we do it that much with them. I don't think we show them a lot of healthy examples. I think sort of the online media environment actually kind of incentivizes the opposite. It shows them like, say something crazy, say something mean, make sure it goes viral. When in reality, there is so much more to learn about this world if you approach it like you just said with this like listening and learning, which is, like, what is it? that happened on your journey that got you to this different endpoint. I didn't start that way. I didn't go on that path. And then you learn something about the world. And the marker of, you know, like a successful conversation is not, did I convince someone or was I convinced of their viewpoint? It's, I understand them a little bit better? Is our relationship deeper? Are our bonds more resilient because we know these pieces? And I think that's something that gets hard in politics because we just don't see that as the modal conversation style in any space really. Dr. Cam (20:08) Yeah. And I think what's really important and what I want to put out there is this isn't getting your kid to listen to you and saying, well, they need, you're right. They need to listen to me. This is about you listening to them. I think a lot of times we hear it and go, you're right. They need to do that for me. And it's the way they learn is when you listen to them and you question and you try to figure out what is it that you're, what am I missing? What is it that you are believing? What is your perception of this that I'm not getting? And so that's how they learn how to do it because they're watching us do it. Lindsey Cormack (20:49) Yeah, and then they get to go ahead and do that when they have their children in a better, more robust way. And this is what it is to have an idea about progress in parenting, an idea about changing, like I say it's this way so it's that way. Well, that's actually not how the world works ever. We get to create sort of the realities that we're gonna live in, and so wouldn't it be better to have a practice that teaches you how to do that? Dr. Cam (21:11) Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. So what is something you want to make sure parents step away with from this session, from this interview? Lindsey Cormack (21:21) think the biggest thing that I hope parents can take is that this is something that they do need to take on and that they can take on. Because a lot of us think like, know, ew, politics, government, I'm uncomfortable by that subject, or I don't know a lot about that subject, so I shouldn't be the one doing it. But if our kids never see us caring about this, never see us engaging on this, they get the message that they shouldn't either, that it's like for someone else to take care of. And that's not true. We all are sort of athletes in this arena. No one gets to sit by and be a spectator. And so if you can show them what it is to do that and say, you know what, I can learn a little more. I can have a conversation. I can do that. I think that's the best thing you can do. All the other pieces, know, no one needs to become a government trivia expert. You don't need to know the ins and outs of everything. You need to show and model what it is to care, to learn more, to care, to be involved, to show that this is something that's worth your time. And that's kind of easy. That's like a mindset shift. That's saying like, okay, I can take this on. Dr. Cam (22:11) Yeah, I love that. So how do people find your book? Lindsey Cormack (22:14) It's everywhere that books are sold online. I think right now it happens to be the cheapest on Amazon. It's also at Barnes and Noble and Bookshop. And then I have a website that's just howtoraesacitizen.com where you can order it directly from me and I'll sign it or send it to someone. You can tell me, know, it's their birthday or they just had a kid or whatever. And I'm like happy to do that and ship it out from my house. Dr. Cam (22:35) I love it. Thank you so much for jumping on with us. Lindsey Cormack (22:38) Thank you so much for having me and thanks for doing this work. I think it's important that we have more people thinking about these sorts of subjects. Dr. Cam (22:44) Ditto for you. Thank you. About the Show: The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your ultimate resource for navigating the challenges of raising teens. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, a seasoned adolescent psychologist and parenting coach, this podcast provides practical strategies and expert advice on how to build stronger relationships with your teen while supporting their emotional and intellectual growth. Whether you're dealing with teen behavior struggles or seeking to improve communication, each episode offers actionable tips to help parents confidently face the challenges of raising teens today. #ParentingTeens #TeenPolitics #CriticalThinking #CivicsEducation #ParentingTips #RaisingInformedCitizens…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

1
How to Raise an Emotionally Intelligent Teen: Insights from Dr. Jenny Woo 42:21

vor 9 weeks42:21

42:21

In this episode of Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam , Dr. Cam Caswell and Dr. Jenny Woo explore the crucial role of emotional intelligence in parenting teens. They discuss how emotional intelligence influences relationships, communication, and teen development, and why it’s more important than ever in today’s world. Dr. Woo sheds light on the "emotional recession" affecting today's youth, and how technology, social media, and societal pressures contribute to emotional challenges. The conversation offers practical advice on how parents can model emotional regulation, resilience, and empathy to help their teens navigate their feelings, cope with emotional discomfort, and build stronger relationships. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE The importance of emotional intelligence in parenting and how it shapes teen development. Practical strategies for recognizing, understanding, and validating teen emotions. The impact of social media and technology on emotional intelligence in teens. How emotional discomfort is necessary for growth and how parents can foster resilience. Why modeling emotional regulation is key for building a connection with your teen. 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Emotions Are Data: Understanding your teen’s emotions can give you valuable insights into their needs and how to better support them. Recognize the nuances of emotions to improve communication. Validating Emotions is Key: Dismissing your teen’s feelings can lead to a breakdown in communication. Validation fosters trust and helps teens feel seen and understood, encouraging stronger connections. Resilience Through Discomfort: Letting your teen experience emotional discomfort helps them develop resilience and coping skills, which are essential for long-term emotional growth. Model Emotional Regulation: Parents need to model healthy emotional regulation. Showing your teen how to manage emotions effectively is the first step in teaching them to do the same. Empathy is Built Through Experience: Allow your teen to face challenges and even "micro failures." This builds empathy and teaches them how to navigate their emotions with greater maturity. 🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to share it with your friends and family! Leave a rating and review to help other parents discover these valuable parenting tips. Your feedback helps us continue providing actionable advice. 🙏💫 EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 – Navigating Parenting and Emotional Intelligence 03:07 – Understanding Emotional Intelligence and Its Role in Teen Development 05:53 – The Emotional Recession: Why Teens Are Struggling with Emotions 08:56 – Deficits in Emotional Intelligence Among Today’s Youth 12:10 – The Impact of Technology and Social Media on Teen Emotions 15:00 – Building Resilience: How Parents Can Help Teens Cope with Emotional Discomfort 17:52 – Modeling Emotional Regulation as Parents 21:41 – Walking on Eggshells: Understanding Teen Emotions Without Overprotecting 24:35 – Validating Feelings: The Importance of Emotional Acceptance 29:55 – Empowering Teens: The Necessity of Autonomy in Emotional Growth 31:46 – Building Empathy: How Experience, Not Just Words, Cultivates Empathy 35:42 – The Myth of Coddling: Why Validating Emotions Doesn’t Lead to Weakness 40:20 – Fostering Connection: How Empathy Strengthens the Parent-Teen Relationship CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dr. Jenny Woo Website: Mind Brain Emotion Facebook: @mindbrainparenting Instagram: @mindbrainparenting Twitter: @mindbrainparent YouTube: @mindbrainemotion CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:01) Parenting in today's world is not easy, especially when it comes to helping teens navigate their emotions and relationships. But what if we could equip our teen with a skill set that builds resilience, confidence, and stronger connections? That's where emotional intelligence comes in. In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Jenny Wu, a Harvard-trained educator, EQ researcher, and the brilliant mind behind mind-brain emotion. Dr. Wu has spent her career bridging the gap between science and practice, creating tools like her award-winning card games, 52 essential conversations, and 52 essential coping skills used by families, schools, and workplaces worldwide. Dr. Wu's expertise has been featured in Forbes, PBS, Parents, and more. And she's here to share practical tips and proven strategies with us to help our teens thrive emotionally and… Socially welcome. Dr. Wu Jenny. How are you? Dr. Jenny Woo (01:00) I'm doing well! Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Kim! Dr. Cam (01:04) Absolutely. And I was just telling you, I love emotional intelligence and talking about this. Tell us first, how did you get into this? What inspired you to specialize in emotional intelligence? Dr. Jenny Woo (01:15) Sure, you know, I've always been passionate in human development and very much worked through that from what I call the toddler years to the twilight years, really started in adult development, training, recruiting, you know, out of school, college graduates, grad students, and even senior leaders in the workplace to really understand, you know, how can you get that promotion? How can you be a good leader? How can you get that on that career trajectory that you're passionate about? And from there, taught MBA students as well as undergrads. And then after having kids of my own, and that's also part of the reason why we're talking, right? Why I got into mind, brain, emotion, and emotional intelligence is really, realized, well, here I am teaching adults in the workplace, but realizing that myself, as a mom and at the time it was mom for three kids under three all in diapers, two are twins preemies. I realized, right? So Dr. Kam, when you mentioned, you know, we want to equip our teens with the skills, but we also want to equip ourselves in the context of parenting with these emotional fluency, awareness, intelligence, regulation skills ourselves. So then that really just educated myself at home and so I wanted to learn more, then really pivoted my career into education, was a Montessori school director for little toddlers, to working in K-12, to then teaching at University of California Irvine with undergrads and graduate students. So long story short, I think emotional intelligence is so important yet so tricky because It's different in different situations, but that's the fun part as well, right? Dr. Cam (03:11) Yeah. Yeah. And so let's get into, for people that aren't as like geeky about emotional intelligence as we are, how would you define it to people? What exactly is it? Dr. Jenny Woo (03:24) Yeah, you know, honestly, it's really about being smart with your emotions. But what does that mean, right? So it starts with being able to recognize our emotions. What are we experiencing? And by emotions, I'm not just talking about mad, sad, you know, but the nuances, the precision of what we're experiencing, because if we're feeling lonely, or neglected versus feeling hurt or inferior. Those are very, very different emotions, even though they all come up to feeling sad. So emotions are data. So understanding what that data is telling us, deciphering it into insights and regulating, taking action and addressing what our emotions are telling us is about being emotionally intelligent. And it's also about agility, right? You know, it's impossible to feel happy at all times. And our goal as parents is not to help our teens to be happy at all times, right? Dr. Cam (04:31) Exactly. That is a very unfair expectation. Dr. Jenny Woo (04:35) extremely unrealistic and unfair, and rather it's really about honoring these emotions and even the mixtures of conflicting emotions and regulating and, you know, also within ourselves and within others as parents or as teens with their peers and building those healthy relationship skills and boundaries, right? So that's what it is. It's knowing how to make emotions work for us and not against us. Dr. Cam (05:11) I love that because I think there's so much fear of emotions and I see a lot of parents because they create so much discomfort, their goal is always to get rid of the bad emotions and replace them with positive emotions. And I think we have this misunderstanding that emotional intelligence is always being okay. And what I love what you just said is it's information, it's data, it's really, it's understanding. Anger and sadness and embarrassment and all of these emotions that, like you said, there's such a wide range. And I think our emotional vocabulary is so constricted to like now it's just depression and anxious. It's all here. And there's so many more words that we're not utilizing and really defining to give us that insight in how we use it rather than trying to hide it. So tell me a little bit about how do you see right now the level of emotional intelligence in terms of just the new generation coming up. Dr. Jenny Woo (06:17) my goodness, I have so much to say. Well, you know, so I think, you know, think some of our listeners definitely have heard that we're in this epidemic of loneliness and isolation, right? But I would say beyond that, even before that, and this was just prior to the pandemic, I was really studying emotional intelligence in the academic world around, you know, the trends and the implications and how you can use it as a buffer for mental health. Dr. Cam (06:19) Good. Dang it. Dr. Jenny Woo (06:47) you know, problems. And even then there were meta analysis of studies showing that today's Western college students are less emotionally intelligent than they were a decade ago. And so you guys imagine this was pre pandemic. And so during the pandemic, we've done studies even on the little ones feeding up, right? How are they going to look? five, 10 years later, social, emotional, behavioral, right, skill sets. And, you know, right now what we're seeing trends is that, you know, unfortunately we are in an emotional recession. And so there's data, you know, provided by Six Seconds and also Gallup. I do a lot of speaking in the workplace at Google, cetera, and just did it with Kia, Conde, around how our Gen Z specifically. are really experiencing these emotional turmoil and they don't know who to turn to. And so you guys imagine, know, we're talking about teens when they go to college, you know, as a professor, I have college students coming to my office hour, you know, anxious about their life and their next steps and only thinking, you know, I've got to do this so that I can go to grad school, so then I can get that job, so then I can maybe after a few jobs finally do what I love. And I was like, wow, that is so tiring and draining just hearing you saying that, know, gotta do this, gotta do this, should, could, would, you know. And in the workplace, know, Gen Zs are really experiencing the most burnout, sadness, and stress. That's what we're seeing. And so the question becomes, you know, like, what can we do now, right, to equip our kids? with these emotional intelligence skills, these coping skills, to be able to know what they want, right? Take actions toward it. And also, like you said, stay resilient, understand how to manage adversity in the tough times. Dr. Cam (08:47) Jenny, so many questions are coming up for me when you're talking about this and the biggest one is why? Because we, through the decades, we have learned about emotional intelligence. We've learned about how to express our emotions. We've learned about the power of empathy, especially as parents. So I feel like we're more equipped to help our kids develop emotional intelligence than we ever have in the past. So why are we at a deficit? Dr. Jenny Woo (09:26) Yeah, and you know, this is really sort of population level trends, right? Not to say that ourselves individually, we are doing well. And to our credit, to the parents' credit, we are more involved moms and dads than, you know, how we were 50 years ago. And to the credits of our teens, they are more aware of their mental health needs, right? And they are incredible advocates. passionate for belonging, others, for all the geopolitical issues and activism that we're experiencing. So I don't want to put this in the lens of a deficit, right? We need to focus on strength-based. I think going back to the foundational why, mean, honestly, Dr. Cam, times are changing and they are accelerating changes rapidly. We've certainly gone through the pandemic. We have the combination of social media, the goods and bads and uglies, right? And sadly, economically speaking, our teens are less daring in terms of dreaming up. that they'll move out of the house, they'll have their own house, right? You know, all those things because of the barriers that we are facing today that we're seeing, right? So I think it's more structural, systemic, and know, things that are sort of out of your control in some ways, right? So how do you deal and manage with the uncontrollables? That becomes yet another thing to think about. But I think as parents, we need to give ourselves a pat on the back. It is extremely hard. But I do also have to call out that it's all about modeling too. And so for example, one of the things I've been talking about lately a lot is when we talk about social media or phone usage, these dopamine hits that we ourselves are very much drawn to. I think it's important to understand how we behave and use technology, right, before we say anything else about our kids. Dr. Cam (11:41) Yeah, I agree with that because, and even when you were saying with all the stress, I keep seeing social media having a negative impact on parents and their expectations on their kids and themselves that they're relaying more so often than I see the negative impact directly to the teenagers. I see it through the parents. And I think we're missing that a lot. Dr. Jenny Woo (12:10) Absolutely. I actually just did a television interview around the phenomenon of phobbing. so, phobbing, right? okay. So it's a slang, but now it's in the dictionary about it's phone snubbing. And so when we are so drawn to scrolling our phone, whether it's for recreational or checking our email, that we ignore the person or our team next to us. Dr. Cam (12:16) I don't know what this is. How many? Dr. Jenny Woo (12:37) who is talking to us or maybe sending those social signals, right? That they need a hug or they're grumpy, maybe they want to unload some things, right? Talk about some things. So this fubbing phenomenon, I think it was just, the stats are crazy and that, you know, most of us have been fubbed and we are the fubber. And in fact, it also cuts into marriage and that I think something about 90 % of married couples are saying that, you know, fubbing is really ruining their relationship. And so Dr. Cam, you're absolutely right in that it is not just impacting our teens. We need to shift the view within ourselves and understand how we're, you know, role modeling or not. Dr. Cam (13:23) Yeah, I always mentioned that my daughter's better at managing her tech use than I am with mine. Like it's very, very addictive and you always have the excuse of it's work. You know, it's important. It's like, no, looking at dog TikToks is not work. Like that's just, I can't, right? Dr. Jenny Woo (13:33) Exactly. Right. And we're sending this signal that my work or the dog TikTok is more important and interesting than you. mean, that really hurts. Dr. Cam (13:51) Yeah, not good. It is. It's not good. So let's talk about because one of the things I hear a lot is, ugh, this generation, ugh, they're so wussy. we've made them so weak and we've made them so like they can't handle anything, which upsets me because I don't feel like they all got together and said, hey, we're going to be wussy. They're growing up as part of the environment that they're in. So it's not any, if they're struggling, It's not on them, it's on the environment that's been created for them. So how do we help them become more resilient in a world that is far more, there's so much more stress, there's so much more pressure, there's so much more just distractions. How do we help our kids build that resilience and emotional intelligence? Dr. Jenny Woo (14:43) Dr. Cam, you know, as you mentioned, it's all about helping them to get comfortable with being uncomfortable, right? That emotional discomfort that experiencing. So as parents, our job is not to sweep all the negative emotions. And honestly, you know, a lot of parents say, how do I get rid of the bad emotions? My kids are experiencing all these bad emotions. And my point is, you need to re shift your mindset and understanding that there is no bad emotions, right? The negative emotions are really telling us what they need in terms of help, support, or maybe a different way of appraising, looking at something. And so taking those as cues for yourself, parents, as well as helping our teens understand what is it trying to say and being comfortable almost, you really accept that, you know, it's normal to feel these discomfort from just oddly weird emotions. Like you love your friend, but you're feeling jealous that they, you know, got that, you know, first place or getting a date or whatnot, you know? It's okay to hold these conflicting emotions at the same time. And you know what? It's okay that your emotional intensity at this time is rather high, whether because you're going through something, you're really stressed in other departments, right? So help them diagnose and understand the why behind it and the how, right? Building up those coping skills, right? Understanding what can you control in this situation? What can you not? And can you remove yourself from certain parts of the situation, right? To feel better. So those problem solving skills are also really important at this stage. Dr. Cam (18:25) It is, and it's I think for us, when we get caught up and we're all tired and overwhelmed and stressed, and I think we end up not being able to regulate our emotions very well sometimes. And this is one thing I'm always telling parents. I'm like, until you can regulate your own emotions, we can't really teach our kids how to regulate theirs very effectively. Because if they're seeing us lose it when we're upset, and then we get upset with them for losing it, it makes no sense. Right? So modeling that. So how do we as parents, when we're stressed and we're overwhelmed and we're exhausted, how do we model emotional intelligence and regulation in front of our teens when we just, we're having trouble finding it? Dr. Jenny Woo (19:13) Yeah, you know, we're not perfect. And again, we're not modeling perfection. I think there's some beauty to it and the messiness of being a human to simply call it out. Say, I am not on my best self. you know, say and express it, the why in age appropriate manners because teens, they love to help you problem solve. They love to feel the sense of power. and ability to help out. And that is also an opportunity to help them express their empathy skills without pushing them, nudging them too much, And so just say, I had a bad day at work, I'm not feeling my best. And you can even say, in case something comes out of my mouth, I apologize for that. Or I am not at my best because something had happened. We love your thoughts if you have time, interested, that kind of thing. Make it a conversation because so many times we feel like we're running into a wall when we're trying to pry these information out of them and you get the one word response. You're like, where do I go from there? And so start the conversation yourself. And this is also where we use our emotional intelligence skills to recognize their social cues. Are they latching on to certain things you said? Or do they seem really bored? Or they need to do something else, right? So then you can adapt what you say, what you share accordingly. But really, when we're having a bad day, don't force it, you know? Sometimes it's it's cloudy, know, almost time to rain and that's, the rain's not turning back, right? So you can remove yourself. Right? Just in the intense moments, remove yourself, take a pause and regroup before you go back to, you know, whatever's needed. Dr. Cam (21:15) I always, I tell my daughter too, I always told her that I gave myself more timeouts than her ever, because timeouts were about calming down. They weren't a punishment ever, but they were about like a space to just calm down. And I'm like, I need a timeout. I needed to give them to myself a lot because I wanted to approach it with an even mind and it's very hard to do. So here's one of the things I hear from parents a lot that I want you to address. I have to walk on eggshells because I'm worried that whatever I do is going to set my teen off. Please address that because that is completely emotional intelligence right there. What do we tell parents who are walking on eggshells? Dr. Jenny Woo (21:56) Yeah, and you know, I would say that feeling is absolutely real. In fact, a couple of years ago, the study came out of Stanford that really found that around the age of 13, our kids are almost like less drawn to their mother's voices in a way that's like repelling instead of attracting, right? because of this natural progression toward independence, individualization. So what that means is that they are anointed by you, you specifically, the mothers or really the parents, know, the people who have really been there for them this whole time, right? Dr. Cam (22:34) They are now annoying. Yes. Dr. Jenny Woo (22:46) Yeah, the way you chew, the way you look at them, right? And so you are very much feeling like you are walking on eggshells because anything could trigger annoyance, irritation, or just like one of those like remarks. You're like, where did that come from? Right? So first of all, don't take it personally. It's a developmental period. It's very tough for all of us, right? What you're feeling is real. And so I would lower your expectations of your ability to connect at some times, right? This is really sad to say for the person who came up with conversation skills, right? But we have to shift our expectations and our approach. And instead of, I think at this time, a lot of us are still sort of functioning in that realm where, you know, what's my agenda? What do I want to do? You know, I need to make sure my kid's doing the right thing right now. Yeah, that's not going to work. That's not going to work. You're going to have to change your rhythm to your team's rhythm. And, you know, a lot of the times when they are ready to open up, it's usually the time, say, I find that at like right before bedtime when you are so tired yourself, right? . And they are sleeping later, but you want to go to bed, right? So it's the most inconvenient times. But knowing that, I would really sort of pace yourself and allocate other times that are more, you know, when they're more open to be able to where, you know, it's less about walking on eggshells. They're more open to you. Dr. Cam (24:17) I think too when we were talking about the discomfort of difficult emotions and one of the things, and I'm curious to get your perspective on this because one of the things that I'll tell parents is they need to get comfortable with their kids not being okay or being upset and we're not about not, when we're tiptoeing around them, it's kind of showing, A, I'm kind of scared of your emotions and B, those emotions aren't okay rather than saying, I'm not going to tiptoe around you, I understand that they might upset you and being upset is okay. I'm just, I'm, that's something that you're going to do. You validate that. You say, yes, you're feeling upset. And it's more about setting the boundary of how they can express that to you of what you're comfortable with rather than trying not to get them to be upset. Is, let me, let me hear your perspective of that. Am I accurate on this? Dr. Jenny Woo (25:28) Yeah, yeah, I absolutely, I love that. And thank you so much for calling this out, right? Because, okay, another thing to remember is that emotions are states. They are temporary. They are transient. They're like the weather system. They will go away and it will be sunny again. You know, again, it will become cloudy. So as parents, we need to recognize that, you know, it's not all or nothing or end of the world. If your team is exploding, it will go away. And your goal is to give them that perspective that it will get better with time. It will go away. And honestly, that is how you build wisdom, right? And experience knowing that, you know, maybe an embarrassing thing happened. You, you cringy, you know, like all those things, all those influx of emotions. And they need to be able to express that, irritation, because one of the... One of the developing the best team coping skills, is, which is really our kryptonite is that our teams are great at dumping their emotions, their distress on their parents. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So parents, you're the emotional dumpster, you know, you, you. Yeah. Dr. Cam (26:36) Yeah, safe place. You're welcome. Yeah. It's a compliment. Dr. Jenny Woo (26:46) because they will unload everything on you and they actually feel better in the meantime you are distraught anxious and going and worry like my gosh what are they what am i gonna do do i need to do anything they are you know like feeling upset which in the meantime they're less upset as you're thinking this Dr. Cam (26:49) Right, they've just done what they needed to do. And Jenny, I want to bring that up because I think that's the other big thing because parents are like, well, I'm walking on eggshells because I don't want them to explode because it's exhausting to me. And I think what I'm seeing is the reason that it's exhausting to us is because we feel like we need to step in and fix it and change it. And that's what's exhausting. If we let go of that need, if we go, that's their emotion, they need to work through it and it's okay and I'm here, but I'm letting go of the need to fix it. It's not exhausting. Dr. Jenny Woo (27:43) Exactly. Yeah, you know, like one of the biggest myth that I talk about at emotional intelligence is that a lot of parents and just people in general feel like, I'm empathic, empathetic, you know, I can tune into kids emotions, other people's emotions, I'm emotionally intelligent. That's absolutely wrong, because the other part of emotional intelligence is being able to regulate your emotions and those around you. So in this case, when you become that emotional dumpster. You are holding on to so many emotional baggage of yourself, your spouse, your kids. How can you emotionally intelligent, being emotionally intelligent to be able to sort of unload that for yourself or not carry that recognizing like you said Dr. Camp that this is my emotional boundary. I am here as a holding vessel but it's not my responsibility to carry it forever. So concretely speaking, it is about reminding yourself, these are all my control and these are not my emotions. You know, my goal has been served. I'm here to listen, but that's done. It's their sort of problem to solve, right? Their skills to build situations to understand and, know, building into, ways of unloading your emotion, whether it's taking a walk, doing journaling or treating yourself, right, to a nice massage. Being able to have that menu of syncing up with yourself and regulating your own emotion is about being emotionally intelligent. Dr. Cam (29:19) Absolutely. And a lot of parents will say, well, when do I have time to do all this? I'm so busy. And I say, when you stop spending all your time trying to change how your teen is feeling and trying to fix everything for your teen, you have tons of time to take care of yourself. And then it's something great for your teen because now you're giving them autonomy and the chance to learn how to take care of themselves. And it's like the best gift. But it's so hard for parents to embrace doing less is doing more for your teen. Dr. Jenny Woo (29:56) I love that. Yes. That's what I say all the time. Doing less is doing more. And this includes holding your tongue sometimes by saying less is saying more. And Dr. Cam, you write as a mom of teens and twins, twins. And, you know, I'm like, where is self-care time? Right. And I tell people, don't just focus on the self-caring part because that is yet another obligation. Think about how to enable others to care for you. And one of the easiest thing is to say, you know what, this is your problem. You got, you know, a C or D or you, you know, something you're going to have to figure out step by step. I'll give you the tools, help you, you know, understand how to smart goals, blah, blah, blah. But you need to take that process and take, take that step to fix it. That is caring for you, right? When they are doing what they need to do instead of you. hovering over them, know, nagging, right? That's saying, saying more, doing less, really. Yeah. Dr. Cam (30:55) Yeah, exhausting. Yeah. And I think part of this too is how do we, I think a lot of parents too, they're doing this because they're trying to teach their kids the critical thinking skills and the emotional regulation skills and empathy. But what I see a lot is they're trying to teach them by doing it for them over and over again. So how do we teach? And I think empathy is a big one that parents struggle with because Adolescence is a very egocentric phase. so empathy does not exude from teenagers and parents feel like, my God, I'm raising this kid that has no empathy whatsoever, especially for me. How do we address that in our kids if we feel like they're not developing empathy right now? Dr. Jenny Woo (31:46) Yeah, you know, one of the biggest thing coming out of empathy is really relating to suffering, right? Understanding how it feels like really walking in the shoes and the reality and we, know, Dr. Kim, you also just mentioned that parents doing everything for the kids, right? When you're doing so much for the kids, there is no ways for them to contribute. Contribution builds empathy, but also when you're not enabling them to take these micro failures, I understand as a parent this day and age, right, failure mistakes are high stakes. I understand that, but there are micro failures, okay? Getting a bad grade on a quiz or on a test, it's okay, right? So allowing them to experience these pleasant emotions, having been there themselves experiencing the sufferings and their lens, right, and their world. They're better able to relate to others, to their peers. And this may even go with exclusion, right? You don't know how being excluded feel like until you've kind of felt some of that, right? And the parents, right, even starting young or setting up these play dates, working out the conflicts with other parents of the kids who are, you know, did something, said something wrong, right? Those are paving the way, but your kids have never experienced what it feels like. How can they even begin to relate to others, you know, and help others in expressing those empathy? So again, it goes back to doing less, right, to have more impact. Yeah. Dr. Cam (33:28) I think also being able to empathize with our kids, even if we think it's silly, you know, like if they're coming home with something and they're stressing out, a lot of times we as parents, and I say we because I do this too, we try to be like, it's not so bad or it's not going to, you don't have to worry about it or it's not a big deal. That's not empathizing. That's dismissing. And so they stop, they don't learn how to empathize when they're not being empathized with. I think too, and I think we have to be really very, very intentional on how are we modeling empathy towards them. Dr. Jenny Woo (34:09) Yes, yes, always validate their feelings, right, before problem solving. It might be a small, you know, no deal, like a small thing to you, but it's a big deal in their eyes. And it's important to honor what they're feeling when they feel respected and heard and understood. That's how feeling on the receiving end of empathy feels like. And they love that. They want to help other people to feel that. And also it's not just a dyad type of dynamic where, you know, we're always thinking of either the parent or the teen, but you can also model that, you know, with other people in front of them, whether it's their friends, your significant other, even a character in the movies, you know, even an antagonist in like a story. Right? So being able to really model that in all different contexts will help your team understand how to express it. Dr. Cam (35:15) Yeah, I think it's so important and Jenny, I want to ask you too, because I know and of course I'm on social media all the time too, but I think one of the most ridiculed parent tip that a lot of other people will say is this, like, why do we have to validate their emotions? Isn't that what's making them so weak? Isn't that what's coddling them? And I hear this a lot. And I would love your response, because I work with teens, so I know exactly the impact it has. But I'm curious from your perspective, what do you have to say, not that we're going to convince anyone differently, but I just want to hear from you. What do you say to that belief that recognizing and validating emotions is coddling and weakening our kids? Dr. Jenny Woo (36:03) Yeah, and you know, there's so much actually gendered nuance to that as well, right? We tend to do more of that to boys, right? Because when we validate, we're acknowledging maybe you're weak, right? You can't handle it. And so there's also a cultural aspect as, you know, Chinese American, right? I find that a lot of people of color, you know, families are, you know, suck it up. I am an immigrant. I had to deal with this and this and this. You, you just have to focus on school, right? So yeah, exactly. So, so those are sort of the dynamics that I see a lot. But you know what? As someone who teaches college students, I can't tell you how many behind the door conversations I have with these amazingly achievement-focused driven college students that go all the way back to, well, my parents said this, I can't be happy. I am not enough. And why am I so weak? I should be able to handle it. And they really just keep going and going, not having that emotional awareness of the fact that they need help. They need support. And so this help seeking behavior becomes nonexistent and they don't have that barometer of understanding when enough is enough or when they need to slow down and take a break. And I can also tell you, when I mentioned I work with Twilight years as a cognitive neuroscience researcher, I did a lot of interventions with adults 70 plus. And it was really about their memory intervention, right? How to build strength and working memory, all that good stuff. But what comes up is really this growth mindset of, you know, like, I can't do it because when I was young, you know, I was told and, you know, and dealing with those emotions, again, the mixed emotion of I am getting older, right? But yet I'm getting more mature, you know, sort of just the good and the bad, right? So I would say, recognize, are you doing this only to your sons or also to your daughters, right? And what are some of the upbringing messages as parents that you have heard that you're carrying on to your kids? Is that appropriate? And what's the worst that could happen by acknowledging your kids' emotions, right? What's the worst that could, only the good, right? And we do this to ourselves. We have less self-compassion because we say this. like suck it up to ourselves and we are hesitant to give ourselves credit because we feel like that will make us complacent, right? We do the same thing and look at ourselves, all the anxiety and the stress we're experiencing because of this very same act. So, you know, for those who are not brought up this way, I would say experiment, keep an open mind, right? Yeah. Dr. Cam (38:58) It is so incredible. And I talk to teenagers every single day. And it's exactly that the messages that they're getting if they're struggling is not, it doesn't make them feel better to say, it up, or you can do this or not validate those emotions. It doesn't make those emotions go away. It makes them feel shame for those emotions and makes them kind of hold them in and make them resent. their parents and the people that told them that rather than helping them express and deal with them. So there's a lot and like you said, at 70, they're still have that because that happened when those formative years, which is adolescence of how we form our identity and how we recognize our emotions and learn to manage them. So I think it's so important and I love just just try it because it is absolutely amazing when you do validate. The connection it builds between you and the trust and respect it builds between you and your child too, which is the foundation of everything else you do as a parent. Dr. Jenny Woo (40:20) Yeah, and can I call out something Dr. Kim, you just said that really hit home, Resentment. You said that word. And let me put it into the parenting context, right? We experience resentment and bitterness when we are not being acknowledged by others, people in our family, right? Dr. Cam (40:23) Of course you can. Dr. Jenny Woo (40:43) whether you're a stay at home mom, a working mom, you know, sometimes we go through these motions of doing the parenting role without being acknowledged, recognized and understood like, wow, this is a really hard job. You know, I don't care if you're working, not working. This is really, really hard. When's the last time somebody told us that, right? When's the last time we said that to our partner or being told of that, right? So that fosters a lot of resentment. And this really is the very same effect to our teens. mean, come on homework these days. Like they are crazy. The volume, the sheer volume, the sheer like acceleration of content, right? What's the last time we said to our teens, wow, I cannot do what you do. I, this was not my teenage years, right? So, so being, that is a sign of respect. That is a sign of relating, which is one of the key elements that our teens need right, to feel powerful, to feel understood. And so again, try it, do it, you know, and it's expressing empathy. Dr. Cam (41:48) Exactly. That's where they learn to empathize is when they feel that empathy and validation back. So Jenny, we are up on time. We've gone over, because I love this topic, but tell us where people can find you, first of all. Dr. Jenny Woo (42:03) Absolutely. You can find me on Instagram or Facebook. It's at MindBring Parenting. My tools, free resources are on my website, which is mindbraingemotion.com. And I have a YouTube channel with lots of free life skills for teens, tweens, and kids. And it's at MindBring Emotion. I'm also on LinkedIn. Dr. Cam (42:27) Fantastic. And what is one big takeaway from all of this, because we covered a lot, that you want parents to at least walk away, if they walk away with one thing, what is it going to be? I know. Dr. Jenny Woo (42:38) my goodness. We said so many. I would say, you know, I really like this message of doing less and having more impact. So parents smart, everyone. This is the time to allow your teens to experience emotional discomfort, to struggle a bit to really understand but validate their emotions along the way and give support when it's time. Dr. Cam (42:47) That is wonderful, wonderful advice. second that completely. Thank you so much, Jenny, for joining us. I really appreciate it. Dr. Jenny Woo (43:14) thank you, Dr. Cam. This is so much fun. About the Show: The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is a valuable resource for parents navigating the challenges of raising teens. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, a clinical psychologist and certified parenting coach, the podcast offers expert advice, practical parenting strategies, and insights to help you connect with your teen, improve communication, and support their emotional development. Whether you’re looking for strategies to address teen behavior or improve your relationship, each episode is packed with actionable tips and real-world advice. #ParentingTeens #EmotionalIntelligence #TeenParenting #TheTeenTranslator…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

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4 Powerful Secrets to Boost Your Teen’s Confidence and Self-Esteem 35:45

vor 10 weeks35:45

35:45

In this episode of Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam , Dr. Cam Caswell sits down with life coach and former teacher Kristi Simons to dive into the secrets of building teen confidence. They discuss why self-awareness is the foundation of confidence, how parents can encourage emotional expression, and why resilience matters more than confidence alone. Kristi shares powerful insights on shifting internal beliefs, fostering self-worth, and creating a supportive environment where teens feel seen, heard, and valued. If you're looking for practical ways to help your teen navigate self-doubt and embrace their full potential, this episode is for you. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE The connection between self-awareness and confidence in teens. How to create a safe space for emotional expression. Why resilience is the real key to long-term confidence. The power of positive reinforcement in shaping self-esteem. Actionable strategies to help your teen overcome self-doubt. 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Self-Awareness Fuels Confidence – Teens who understand their emotions and thought patterns develop a stronger sense of self-worth. Encourage reflection and emotional awareness. Emotional Expression Builds Strength – Suppressing emotions leads to self-doubt. Let your teen know it's okay to express how they feel without fear of judgment. Kindness is a Confidence Booster – The way you talk to your teen (and yourself!) influences their self-perception. Kindness and encouragement go a long way. Resilience Over Perfection – Confidence isn’t about never failing—it’s about bouncing back. Teach your teen that setbacks are learning opportunities, not defeats. Believe in Them First – Your teen mirrors your belief in them. Show them you trust their abilities, and they’ll start believing in themselves too. 🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫 🔔 Remember to hit Follow so you never miss another solution-packed episode! 🙌 EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 – Unlocking Teen Confidence: A Journey Begins 05:54 – Understanding Teen Challenges: The Struggle for Self-Awareness 11:54 – Embracing Emotions: The Key to Resilience 17:52 – Reverse Engineering Confidence: Practical Steps for Parents 23:55 – Creating a Safe Space: Encouraging Open Communication 29:48 – Final Thoughts: Empowering Teens Through Kindness CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Kristi Simons Website: kristisimonscoaching.com Instagram: @confidentteenteacher CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell THE FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam Hey parents, are you ready to unlock the secrets to building your teens confidence? In today's episode, we're diving deep into how to help our teens tackle challenges with a strong sense of self, whether they're facing struggles at home or feeling the pressure at school. And we've got a special guest with us, Christy Simons, a former teacher turned teen life coach, who's on a mission to equip teens with the life skills she was she had growing up. Me too. Skills that build true confidence and resilience. So if you're looking for ways to help your team not only survive, but thrive, this episode is for you. Welcome, Christy. Kristi Simons (00:43) Thank you so much for having me. I'm so grateful to be here. These conversations energize me in the best of ways. So I just appreciate your time and the space to have them. Dr. Cam (00:53) Well, thank you for saying that. I appreciate that too. And I would love to start just by hearing your story. How did you go from a teacher to a teen life coach? Kristi Simons (01:02) Yeah, so I'll try to make this as short as possible. But what happened for me was my teen years is where all of, I would say a lot of my trauma was really rooted. And it wasn't something I realized until I became a mom for the first time. So that's when the shift really happened. I started to lean into things that I desired in different a different way of living, honestly, because I knew that a change needed to happen. And that change had to start with me. And I'm not even really honestly sure how I knew that but My son really changed everything for me, my daughter as well. After two mental health breakdowns, I finally decided that coaching was the right route for me. So I hired my own coach. I stepped into such an inspiring community with all of these incredible women. And I just looked around and I was like, my gosh, it's like there's a different way. And what started to come to me was that they were speaking like a completely different language. And it was this language of self-love, confidence and empowerment that I feel like I wasn't really surrounded by before. And so things slowly started to piece themselves back together. I mean, I really do feel like motherhood for me just shattered me into pieces. And there were pieces of myself that needed to fall away and others that were meant to stay. It's just, had to figure out how to put them back together. And so that's what coaching and community really did for me. And I found myself a little after four years starting my own podcast. And the reason that it ended up being, you know, teens specifically that I work with. Honestly, truthfully, I sit here today and I'm still like, how did this happen? Like to me, it's just, I look back and I can see all of the breadcrumbs. But honestly, I tell people like it just kind of happened organically. And there's something bigger at play here, I truly believe. But that's a different conversation. And so yeah, I started to initially help teens through the pandemic. A lot of them were just dropping out of high school for multiple reasons, mainly main one being like their mental health and just the way that they were actually feeling. And so I started helping them in that capacity. And then I realized how much coaching had changed my life and the trajectory of it. I became sober. I still am three years later. Like there's just so many shifts that have happened for me in such a positive way that I knew that I wanted to give back in that way as well. So I started doing like tutoring and life coaching, and now it's just moved into full life coaching. yeah. Dr. Cam (03:30) That's fantastic. And so what are some of the common, I guess, common challenges you're seeing that teens have today that is wearing on their confidence? Kristi Simons (03:43) You know what it is that I can see so clearly? Well, one, the first thing that's coming to me is just helping them to be more aware of what I am noticing, like helping them to recognize in themselves what's actually going on. But what I really see is they don't know how to reverse engineer how they actually want to feel. And they keep coming up against these blocks and these challenges in their lives that are really keeping them stuck where they are, because I hear that often from them. They do feel stuck. They feel like they need to constantly be comparing themselves to others. They're worried about others' opinions. So there's evidence just from the clients that I work with that there's people pleasing involved. So it's how do we now start to help them to understand that they are, in fact, their own person and that they can trust themselves. And so I would say a lot of it is that. It may seem like these external factors to them, but really what's happening is it's like the internal, it's the beliefs that they have about themselves. And so it's trying to get them to shift their perspective to that language of self-love, confidence, and empowerment that I feel like I learned later in life. But now that I know it, I feel like it's like my duty to teach it. So this is why I stepped out of the classroom to do this. And again, it's just to me, I'm still just like, wow, it's kind of like this like holy shit moment where I'm like, can't believe this is actually the work that I'm doing. Because you recognize like those qualities within yourself, like you can't do this work unless you actually have confidence and you feel empowered in your life, or at least you're moving in that direction. I mean, it's a constant evolution. And there's always going to be struggles and challenges. But you come to this place where you really do realize that you are like this machine that is capable of so, so much. Dr. Cam (05:06) And teaching teens how to embrace that when they're still in the process of like developing their self-confidence and developing those connections in their brains. Imagine if we can develop at the beginning their self-confidence built into their self-esteem or built into their self-concept because I do know a lot of adults that still mean like still struggle with confidence because our whole And as you said, as teens, we grew up with this belief that we weren't enough, and that was hardwired into who we think we are. And it's very difficult to change that once it's so set. It can be done. It's just a lot of hard work. So how do we as parents start building that foundation of confidence and positive self-esteem in our kids without the over because I know a lot of parents worry, my gosh, I don't want them to become egotistical. I don't want them to become narcissistic. I don't want them to become entitled. And so I think there's this fear of going there and we almost overcompensate for that fear. And I see a lot with parents where they're just putting their kids down a lot, but not because of that fear. Like they don't want their kids to have a false sense of ego. How do we balance that? Kristi Simons (06:41) Okay, so what's coming to me right now, and I'm all about simplicity, so I'm going to keep this super simple, but it really comes back to just seeing things through a lens of love. Like if we can just remember that sentence. And again, it's the beliefs that we have within ourselves as well. So we really need to pay attention and be aware of that. But this is going to be a really silly example. And I know my husband thinks I'm super strange for doing this, but it honestly works. And this is just like to make a point. So he bought me flowers for our anniversary and this was October 30th was our anniversary. And so these flowers are still alive. And I know that they are alive because I continuously every morning I do one thing. It's like one small habit for these flowers so that I can keep them as long as possible. I will fill them up with new water and I will literally talk to, like I will speak to them and I will speak into the water and I will just give like positive energy to them, like stay alive essentially, but you're beautiful. You're so powerful, like you're so strong. And I swear to you, I will go get them if you want me to prove they are still alive. And when I think about the fact that we as human beings are like, I don't know if it's like 70 % energy or something, don't quote me on that, but it's close. It's all in the way that we speak. It's all in the way that we show up. It's in the way that we communicate. Like to me, like your words have such power. And so if just by, and this is just me doing an experiment to prove to my husband that these things are going to be alive till freaking Christmas, and then he'll finally believe me. But it's true if we can understand that from that perspective, like 90 % of, 90 % of life I believe is all about energy. The other 10 % is strategy. Dr. Cam (08:19) I want to see that. That'd be amazing. Kristi Simons (08:46) And once you can, you know, as I said, really see things through a lens of love and just start communicating in small ways to help build the confidence for them. Like for me, I didn't have that belief until my coach started to instill it in me. I had zero belief. All I knew is I wanted to change, but I had no idea how. Like there wasn't any belief. So it took her holding that belief for me and seeing it for me before I could see it and believe it for myself. I feel like we all need those people in our lives. So it's really about just shifting the conversation and also like giving ourselves a ton of compassion as well, because I know there's conversations that I used to have about other people, about myself, that yeah, I just, don't want to be hard on myself for that anymore. It's just about, okay, today, like what can I do to start making some changes and focusing in a direction that actually benefits everybody. Dr. Cam (09:34) Yeah, I love that and setting that expectation of it is it's just changing what you hear because that changes the voice in your head. Like you take the voice that you hear in your head is really the voice you heard often from your parents growing up, right? It becomes your internal. And so a lot of times parents get very focused on fixing and changing and improving their kids for good reason, like I understand why they're doing it, but it comes across as constantly, you know, nagging and berating and changing and criticizing and judging and all of a sudden, and I get all these kids coming into my office that have zero self-esteem and everything is a should for them. Like I should do this, I should be this, I should feel that. And that's because the messages have come to them constantly that what they're doing and who they are is not enough, they should be more. And they're never gonna be that because no matter what they are, there's still more that they should be. And that feels completely defeating. So how do we as parents balance this motivation and teaching with our kids where we wanna give them guidance and we wanna help them grow and develop and learn? How do we balance that with this positive reinforcement in positive words so that we're giving them an internal voice that is compassionate to them. Kristi Simons (11:12) Yeah, I love this question. it really to me, it's all about, well, first the belief. So if we're starting to instill some beliefs in them, some new beliefs, that's already going to be a step one, right? And then what comes next, it's really about, okay, if you have those beliefs, like what are the thoughts that you're having? So what I see with my clients is just the importance of having more of a connection with themselves and actually you know, speaking about their feelings, journaling about their feelings. And I know that for a lot of parents, like that's a big like, like, wouldn't it be nice, like something that they put on their wishlist? Like, wouldn't it be nice if my teen like knew how to feel their feelings rather than holding them in because they know what that can do like internally for their system. And so it's just really about helping them to express that. And again, it in the beginning, It may seem awkward or feel awkward for everybody because if it's not something you're used to doing, of course it's going to be different. When you're creating change, there's going to be that discomfort. And so what I see is just for them, it's really being aware of their thoughts and learning to think about what they actually think about. And then once you're in that space, you can then take action from a different perspective. Because to me, it all comes down to choice. We all have a choice in that moment, whether we want to lean into all of the limiting beliefs that we have about ourselves or whether we want to lean into the feelings that we're actually desiring to feel. Because again, to me, at the end of the day, all of this, it all comes back to feeling. We want to feel connected to our children. They want to feel confident. They want to feel proud of themselves. These are words that I hear from my clients. It has more to do with what they're experiencing internally rather than the external. So we really have to come back to a place of how do we encourage them slowly to start either, you know, connecting with a mentor, connecting with a teacher, a best friend, a cousin, like a role model, somebody that really inspires them in their life. Like find them that person. If you still feel that, you know, there's stuff that you want to work on for yourself and just start having those conversations with them, start exposing them to a different language. This is what this is. And I feel like for a lot of people, like even leaning into that feels uncomfortable. And that's where the confidence is created. And I feel like that's the part that we often miss is to be emotionally uncomfortable is where you will start to build the resilience and the knowing and the evidence that you are in fact capable of overcoming anything in your life because what doesn't challenge you won't change you. So that's essentially what we're after. Dr. Cam (14:02) Let's dig into the emotion thing because I think this is something that I see a lot of parents struggle with for good reason again. Hard emotions are uncomfortable as you just said and I think being able to be okay in that discomfort is what is so important because as you were saying, a lot of kids learn to push down their emotions or they don't learn to regulate their emotions. And what I commonly see is we're uncomfortable with that emotion, anger, sadness, frustration, mean, jealousy, any of those things. Our knee-jerk reaction is to shut the emotion down, change the emotion, or just completely brush the emotion off and say, it's not that big a deal. When we do that with these big emotions that are just as equally fair and needed as happiness and pride and excitement, right? We are okay with those being really big. We're not okay with the other emotions. So when those emotions come up, allowing our kids to feel those emotions without trying to change them, without trying to fix them is part of what builds confidence because we are, especially teenagers, they are their emotions. that leads every day, they are living in their emotions. So when we tell them their emotions are wrong, or we try to push back their emotions, we're telling them they're wrong, that something's wrong with them, that how they're feeling is not okay, which means they're not okay. And I think that's what I'm, then they don't trust themselves. They start going, well, if I'm feeling this way about this and I shouldn't, then I don't trust how I feel. So I don't trust myself. So there goes my confidence in my ability to understand what's going on. Do you agree with that? . Kristi Simons (16:01) yeah, 100%. And I just, you know what I know to be true for me as well is just that my teen self would have understood this if somebody explained it to her, that the E in emotion stands for energy in motion. So when I actually started to understand that I was more of an energetic being, and that these emotions were essentially energy, I’m so visual. So I really started to like connect with that and I could see when my energy would shift. So now I'm actually making like, like I'm not always up in my head. It's like you're actually making like a mind and body connection. And I feel like that's super important because then you're able to actually feel what it feels to be grounded, feel what it feels to be present. And I think that that's super important as well. So for me, that was huge. then again, being able to like some of the biggest aha moments I feel like my clients have is when they realize that rather than as you said, being like, like the victim of the emotion, because all emotions are so important and need to be celebrated, right? It's like you, you learn to become friends with them and actually hear what they are trying to tell you because you have all the answers within. So what I help them to do is rather than be a victim to the emotion, help them to be the coach, once they get to that point in their lives, which is so beautiful to see. And also just like the creator of how they want to feel. So leaning more into that and then actually challenging themselves to reframe. And I feel like those three roles that they can play in their lives, the coach, the challenger and the creator are just, they're so empowering. It's literally called the empowerment dynamic. It is not mine. It is just a tool, another strategy that I teach. But yeah, so many of these different ways of being that once you're aware of them, you're like, my gosh, why didn't I know this before? it's a muscle though. This is the thing. It's a muscle. Like anything else in life that say we desire, I desire to run a full marathon this year. And I'm not going to lie to you. When I signed up, I was like, yeah, fully confident. Then throughout the year, holy gosh, it was a roller coaster. I was like, I don't think I can do this. Now I'm ready for sure. No, I can't do this. I was all over the map. But it really just came back to the person that I had to become along that journey and the overcoming of each and every emotion and each and every belief that was telling me that I couldn't or I shouldn't or whatever the case may be. Like once it finally came race day, it wasn't even so much crossing the finish line. Like I am looking back now thinking to myself like, yes, I did run and complete a full marathon. And I'm proud of myself for that, but I'm so much more proud of every small step that led me to that finish line along the way, because I was overcoming so much and I was proving to myself that I'm capable. Dr. Cam (18:43) You kept doing it. So having those wins and those examples of overcoming difficult things and going, you can overcome difficult things. You have overcome difficult things, I think is so important too because we often focus on what they could do or they can do in the future. And that causes a lot of anxiety and pressure because they question if they can. So now they just feel pressure to do it. But when we focus more on what they already accomplished, they've already done. This then builds that belief in themselves. Yeah, I do do that, which now, since I have all these examples of me succeeding in the past, I can do it in the future. And I think what's really important and what you were saying, like we're going up and down in our belief system. I think for parents, what we need to learn to do is have a belief system in our kids that is on the up all the time. giving them the benefit of the doubt, believing that they are a good person doing the best they can, believing that there is a reason underlying whatever they're doing and it's not just to annoy us and be difficult. And when we change our mindset about our kids, changes our approach to our kids, which changes the words and the tone and the dynamic with our kids, which changes how our kids feel about themselves. Kristi Simons (20:25) my gosh, I love this conversation so much. I really love you. You're so fantastic. You just gave me a visual this time. Like now I'm seeing a literal like ladder, like a ladder almost of like believability. Like it's constantly as you were describing this. And this is why I connected with you, especially through your Instagram, because when you were explaining things and using your hands, I just feel like the way you explain things, I like, you have a gift of being able to explain things that I can like visually see, which is so, so cool. But yeah, this time I was literally seeing like this ladder of believability. So every step you take, like you are building that belief and it's just constantly going to grow and get better and better and stronger and stronger. Yeah, you just have to keep taking the actionable steps and moving up. Like there's no way, the only way out is through and it's gonna be up. It's gonna be up. Dr. Cam (21:11) It is, and just keep stepping there. And I think I wanna address Christy, I want you to help me address and help kids. And thank you, thank you for that compliment, that made my day. That boosted my confidence. So when we, when we've got a teen right now, let's say, and they're struggling with confidence, right? And we see them and we get this, and this happens a lot when they go into middle school and high school because they start comparing, as you said, comparing themselves. Kristi Simons (21:24) You're welcome. Dr. Cam (21:41) Our word as parents becomes completely irrelevant, right? Kids no longer believe R, but you're smart, but you're beautiful, but you're, they're like, you have to say that you're my mom. You have to say that you're my dad. So it has zero value to them anymore. So now we're in a place, kids are insecure. We don't have a lot of power in our words so much anymore. How do we help boost their confidence now. How do we start and I loved I want to get to that reverse engineering you said I wrote that down I love that talk to us a little bit about how do we as parents help reverse engineer their belief system now. Kristi Simons (22:24) Yeah. So what comes up for me is just be brave, trust yourself, take action. Because this is an affirmation that I have been speaking to myself for, gosh, probably four plus years now. And it just helps me to remember that we need to be brave enough to actually lean into like what's going on, what the root cause is. Because to me, if you're telling your teen something that is making them uncomfortable in that way, like something like, I'm so proud of you or you're so beautiful and they're not receiving that. It's because they don't have that belief, like they don't believe that about themselves. So at some point in the game, like they started to believe that they're not enough and that they're not worthy of a compliment like that. And so this isn't something that can just be changed overnight, but I do believe by leaning into, you know, what is it that hurt you? Like, what is it that is causing that blocks, like just asking them plain and simply like, how come? And if they're not ready to talk about it, they're not ready, but at least they know that with you, they have like a safe place to land if they ever need to. But once you actually do connect with that, and again, sometimes it's just about talking through that with other people, if they're not as open to communicating. Again, I don't have a teenager. So again, it's so interesting that I fell into this work based on what I have needed as a teen. I'm really hoping that this work helps me as I move along as a parent of teens. Dr. Cam (23:53) It does because I started this with Mike without a teen and now she's 18. It works people. do everything I teach and it's like what's fun Christy is she is Kristi Simons (23:59) Yeah. Yeah. Well, what I see with my clients, but I don't have like, my own. So I'm like, I can't speak to that yet. Dr. Cam (24:07) Yeah. And I have a kid and the whole focus for her, a big piece of how I interacted with her was to ensure as best as I could that she felt confident in herself. And that kid feels confident in herself. She's, it's amazing. Does she have a big ego? No, not even remotely, but she pushes herself and tries and it's okay failing. And she steps up and does it again and again. And like, she's so incredibly resilient. So I think, and that's, I think that's bigger than the confidence. She's resilient. She goes up and down in confidence as we all do, but she keeps getting up and keeps getting up and she's able to do it and not giving up. And I am proud of myself as a parent for being able to help her instill that because I did it without necessarily feeling it myself. Kristi Simons (25:06) So I think exactly what you just said, I'm gonna veer off what I was saying because it just came to me so clearly. That's exactly what we need to be doing as parents as well. Like that is my reminder. I'm gonna hope that that stays and it sticks, but they keep getting up and trying again and again. I feel like that's the same way that we should be showing up for them if we wanna see like lasting sustainable change. You need to say it over and over again. And yeah, it's going to probably drive you a little crazy, you're probably gonna feel frustrated. You might hit your red zone in some ways because yeah, it's gonna be emotionally uncomfortable. know again, as I said, like even just as a parent, like seeing my toddlers in discomfort, it already, it just, pulls at your heartstrings. It's not fun. But at the same time, I feel like, yeah, we're doing them such a disservice by not showing up for them in this way. Like it is just so important to continuously speak to them in that way because when I truly think on a daily basis, even with the awareness that I have, I still have thoughts that loop in my mind and I will catch myself. I'm like, my gosh, that is terrible. I can't believe you just thought that about yourself. And then it just makes you wonder, you know, that's what the upbringing and the expectations, you know, that I had in my family, like things are totally different now. And it's just, makes you wonder like, you know, what thoughts they're thinking in their minds on a day to day basis. And so it's just, I feel like it's so important to be just kind with people because you don't know the battles that they are facing. And so, yeah, you just gotta keep, as much as it feels annoying, I promise you it's not, it'll be worth it. Just keep reinforcing the positive belief because it's like, it's there, it exists. You just have to make the choice to choose it. Dr. Cam (26:51) Christy, I think when you just said kind, that to me is bottom line. as parents, and this has been my approach as parenting the whole time, whenever I approach something, and there's times that I'm not in a great mood, but in general, overall, my approach is kind. It's all about kindness. And it's no matter what is going on, no matter what the situation is, you have a choice to respond in either being harsh and unkind or being kind. No matter what the situation is, you always, always, always have that choice. And as a parent, we should always, always, always be choosing kindness with our kids. There's no reason not to. And when we approach them with kindness, that gives them that belief in themselves that they are worthy of being treated kindly. And when they're feeling worthy of being treated kindly, that gives them that sense of like, I'm not okay when somebody treats me unkindly. I can recognize that and I'm not okay with that. When we treat them unkindly, they believe that that's how they should be treated. And they keep finding those situations in their life and saying, I deserve being treated that way because I've always been treated that way. So I think it's really important that how we treat our kids is teaching them how to treat others, but how others should treat them. And that to me is bottom line essential as a parent. Kristi Simons (28:23) Yeah. And so important also to your point that, you know, just in teaching and being kind to them, I feel like it's just so it's equally as important for them to be kind to themselves for us to be kind to ourselves. Like I know even like with my toddlers, for example, like there are times where again, yes, still human. So I will react. And then I have in that moment, the choice to, you know, continue reacting or to become aware of it and then just repair it. But I feel like the in-between, like what we sometimes miss, which is why it makes it so hard to repair, is because we lack kindness for ourselves. We lack empathy for ourselves. So then our hurt just keeps projecting onto them. So it's really about healing ourselves. And I feel like this is one of the biggest things that needs to start happening for our teens. It's again, it's a lot of everybody's discomfort that gets in the way from them actually achieving. Dr. Cam (28:53) That is the biggest thing. It is our discomfort. And I think we need to be able to be aware when we're uncomfortable and that is not our teens' to make us feel comfortable. That's not on them. That's us to be able to sit in that discomfort and not have to fix it for them, but just be there for them while they figure it out. And when they're able to figure it out and know it's okay to not be okay, I think that's the biggest thing. A lot of parents say, I just want my teen to be happy. I just want them to be happy. And that is such an unfair expectation to put on our kid. Nobody on the planet is happy all the time. And that, you know, to be able to not be happy is something that I want for my teen too, to be able to be okay when they're not happy, when she's not happy, knowing that she's going to get through it. That's important to me. Kristi Simons (30:20) I love that. So beautiful. Dr. Cam (30:21) Yeah. So confidence is this internal thing that we want to help build, but what we do as parents is we're reflecting back how they think about themselves. Anything that you want to make sure parents walk away with from this episode. Kristi Simons (30:47) I think the last thing that was coming for me was just that there can be so much information out there. And like, I want parents to have the same confidence that I want their teens to have, right? Like I want them to just believe in trust in themselves and the decisions that they're making and that they're right there for their families. Like I am just somebody who's here. I feel more so like as a vessel just to share with all of you this language because I believe that it is a very positive direction for everybody. So I would just say like to keep it simple. And by simple, mean just literally lean into what feels good for you. Like that's all that you have to do. Just ask yourself in that moment, stop and be aware and just ask yourself like what is going to help like just essentially shine more light rather than, you know, keep them stuck in the dark. And I feel like if you can just continuously remind yourself of that, you're already on the right track. And over time, once the language shifts, like everything just becomes easier. Dr. Cam (31:42) Once it becomes natural. you know, I want to kind of add to that a little bit too, Christy, because I think that is such an essential message. And it's one that I don't feel like I repeat enough. If parents, I hear from parents a lot, I'm failing. I feel like I'm failing. I feel like I've done everything wrong. And when we get stuck in that mindset, we don't end up growing or moving or changing or doing the things that can replicate and repair that. So I think if you're first of all, if you're listening to this, you're a damn good parent because you're taking time out to listen to how to be a better parent. So you're already a good parent. So you can't say you're failing. Sorry. Take that off the table. Not allowed. Even when we have made mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake, we're still not failing as a parent if we keep saying, What can I learn from each time? What can I do differently today? What can I learn today to be a little bit better than I was yesterday? Then you're not failing. So I think I love that where we were does not define where we are now and where we're going to be able and where we can go. Kristi Simons (33:11) Yeah, I honestly would just like to highlight and just encourage you to just look back at your journey with them. Like take time, like if you're ever really feeling frustrated, if you all of a sudden realize that your emotions are shifting and you know, you're angry or you're upset or you feel disrespected, like whatever the case may be. In that moment, here's a little tool for you, can use just literally start from like when they were like first born and take yourself like through like the years of you know, just their life so far and all of like your happiest memories, I promise you it will shift your energy in that moment and it will help you to make a more conscious and aware decision. Dr. Cam (33:39) That is a phenomenal tip. We will leave with that tip. That was really good. Christy, how do people find you? Kristi Simons (33:52) So I'm most active on Instagram, I would say. So you can find me at Confident Teen Teacher. Apart from that, I am opening my books right now for teen audits. So that's the first step. If your teen is looking for support, that's the first step they can take on their journey. Just fill out that application and then we do that initial audit and action plan to see if it's a good fit. And then we would move into a coaching container if it is. So you can find all of that at my website. It's just Christy Simons, S-I-M-O-N-S, my goodness, can't even spell my last name, .com forward slash teen audit. And then, the podcast as well. Yeah, if you love listening to podcasts like this one, and you just love listening to inspiring and meaningful conversations, yeah, Confident Teen Podcast, wherever you listen to your podcasts. Dr. Cam (34:29) Fantastic, and I will put all the stuff in the notes so people can find it. Christy, thank you so much for joining me today. Kristi Simons (34:52) Thank you. It was lovely. I told you, I feel so freaking energized. So energized. Dr. Cam (34:57) I know I love talking about this stuff. This is great. I really enjoyed talking to you too. About the Show The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers expert advice, practical parenting strategies, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. #ParentingTeens #TeenConfidence #RaisingResilientTeens #TheTeenTranslator…

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In this episode, Dr. Cam sits down with Elaine Taylor-Klaus to explore the challenges and strategies for raising neurodiverse teens. Elaine shares her personal journey as a mom of neurodiverse kids and how she became a coach to help other parents. They discuss the shifting perceptions of ADHD and autism, the increasing diagnoses, and why neurodiversity should be seen as an evolutionary adaptation rather than a deficit. The conversation focuses on collaborative problem-solving, trust-building, and fostering teen autonomy, as well as the role of medication in supporting neurodiverse youth. WHAT YOU’LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE How to shift your mindset around ADHD and autism The benefits of coaching for parents of neurodiverse teens Why collaborative problem-solving builds stronger parent-teen relationships The role of medication in supporting neurodiverse individuals How to empower your teen by meeting them where they are 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF NEURODIVERSE TEENS Coaching empowers parents and transforms family dynamics. ADHD can be an advantage when understood and managed properly. Medication is a tool, not a solution—its role varies for each child. Building trust leads to better communication and cooperation. Understanding neurodiversity benefits all kids, not just those diagnosed. ENJOYING THE SHOW? If this episode was helpful, share it with other parents and leave a rating and review! Your feedback helps us create more valuable content to support you and your teen. Remember to hit Follow so you never miss an episode packed with actionable parenting strategies! EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction to Neurodiversity and Parenting Challenges 10:03 Understanding ADHD in Today's World 21:01 Supporting Neurodiverse Teens: A Coaching Approach 29:57 Key Takeaways for Parents of Neurodiverse Children CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Elaine Taylor-Klaus Website: ImpactParents.com Instagram: @ImpactParents Facebook: @ImpactParents Twitter: @ElaineTKlaus LinkedIn: Elaine Taylor-Klaus Podcast: Parenting with Impact CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:00) Welcome back to the show. Today we're diving into a topic that's close to my heart, supporting our neurodiverse teens. If you're parent navigating the unique challenges of raising a neurodiverse child, you don't want to miss this episode. Joining us is the incredible Elaine Taylor-Klaus, a master certified coach and a mom of six in an ADHD plus plus family. We're gonna explain what that is. Elaine is a true thought leader in the field of neurodiversity, co-founding the first global coaching communities for parents of complex kids through Impact ADHD and ImpactParents.com. She's dedicated her career to educating and empowering parents like us, and her insights are invaluable. Elaine is here to help us understand how to nurture our teens so they can thrive. So if you're ready to transform the way you support your neurodiverse teen, stick around. This episode is going to be packed with essential advice you don't want to miss. Welcome, Elaine. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (00:58) Thank you. It is great to be here. I love your energy. I'm excited. Dr. Cam (01:02) I'm so glad to talk to you about this and I want to first hear about your story. A mom of six neurodiverse kids. Did I get that right? Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (01:09) Not six, actually. I have three neurodiverse kids myself and my business partner Diane has three. And so I think that somehow got lost in the translation. Now that they're young adults and they each have partners, it feels like a mom of six. Dr. Cam (01:18) is this what got you into this field or what really inspired you to focus on this? Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (01:29) Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. This is what got me in. I was a mom of three complex kids under the age of 10. I didn't even know what that meant. I just knew that I was struggling. My eldest kid was really not an easy kid to raise, had lots of diagnoses, lots of health issues, medically fragile. It was complicated. And I remember going to my child's therapist, psychologist at about eight years old with this long list of like eight diagnoses and I'm crying. I'm like, what do I do? Where do I start? So she sent me to a nutritionist. said, with all this, you start with the metabolic. And so we were kind of getting a handle on that. went gluten free, had a huge impact. And somebody turned me onto coaching. And I was really struggling. There was a lot of support available for my kids and there was really nothing for me except for, you know, that five minutes with my hand on the doors, I'm walking out of the kids therapist office where I'm like, can I ask you one more thing? I like, it's so not fair. There was so little resource for parents at the time. And, and so the long story short, I was trying to go back to graduate school. took the GREs. I was going to go, you know, get a PhD and I discovered coaching and I fell in love. I I called my husband the first afternoon in tears and like, yeah, there were a lot of tears in those years. I found it. Like this is it. It was an empowering way to be. was, I had like used a midwife. I was all about wellness and health and, and, and I found that coaching gave me a framework for how I really wanted to be as a parent. I wanted to see them as whole and healthy and capable and not broken and needing to be fixed. And coaching was just, it was the answer for me. And so it really transformed me. which really transformed my family. Ultimately, my husband also became a coach. And when I asked him years later, like, what happened? He said, I just couldn't deny anymore that what you were doing was working. So I ended up kind of creating this, this new modality, blending coaching with neurodiversity awareness. And when Diane and I met, we had this similar experience, only I did have ADHD and learning issues that were diagnosed in my forties and she did not. And it worked for both of us. So we kind of knew we were onto something and it wasn't rocket science. We could teach it to other parents. So I started coaching and training parents of complex kids. And, you know, that was, that was a long time ago now. Dr. Cam (03:54) The rest is history. Do you see a change in what parents are coming to you about? Or do you feel like it's consistent? . Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (04:19) Yes and no. Yes and no. mean, the world's changed a lot, you know, but by the time I started, we were already post 9-11, which is when I, and technology was already starting to become a part of the world. So I think that for me, part of what's changed is our understanding and awareness, the research, the clarity about ADHD, about executive function, about neurodiversity, mental health, that's shifted a lot in the last 20 years. So there is a little less stigma and a lot more awareness to the importance of really addressing these issues. I say a little less stigma, not as much as a little Well, there's less. But part of it is because the autism movement came in and autism kind of came in and said, we're not taking your stigma, forget that. And I really think it shifted people's frame of reference around difference and shifted because the autism movement really did say, I'm not coming to you, you got to come to me. And it changed. I think now that it's so interesting. One of the big things that's changed is in the early days, like when my kids were diagnosed and those days, the providers had to choose between an ADHD diagnosis or an autism diagnosis. You could have one or the other, but not both till about 2013. And so everybody wanted, you didn't want an autism diagnosis. That was like a death sentence in those days. Now a provider, first of all, a provider doesn't have to make the choice. Both can be diagnosed and are very frequently. The correlation is very high. But now a parent can get better services with an autism diagnosis than an ADHD diagnosis and better support and compassion from their peers and friends and family. So now you've got people seeking a diagnosis that they used that 20 years ago they were avoiding. And I was one of them, right? Dr. Cam (06:17) the avoider. What do you think is a stigma with autism? are people kind of feeling opposed to now?. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (06:24) think there's less stigma with autism than ADHD now. mean, you know, nobody wants a diagnosis, but I think with autism, there's beginning to be an understanding that they can learn skills and tools and approaches and modalities, that they can learn how to adapt and modify and improve their capacity.because it's coming from a different part of the brain and it's a different, it's not as much about, if they don't have the overlapping ADHD, it's not as much about executive function. It's more about sensory and social. And you can actually, I think with people with autism, especially if you catch it early, you can really help them learn how to kind of integrate themselves into the world. With ADHD, there's still a lot, I think there's more stigma than anything in the ADHD space. Dr. Cam (07:17) I have some questions about that too, because one thing I've noticed is the diagnosis for ADHD seems to be going up and up and up and up. Why do you think this is? Please, I've got one too and I'm curious to hear what yours is since you're an expert in it. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (07:29) Okay, here's my take on that. Okay, there a reasons. There are few reasons. One is that there is a lot more research. We understand it way better than we did. Like 30 years ago, ADHD only was hyperactivity in little boys. That is so not the case. Now there are all these adults who are not diagnosed and under diagnosed. So we understand what we're looking for better. The second is we are living in an interruption driven world where there's so much more distraction and so much more volume coming at us that ADHD is kind of on a spectrum, your capacity to handle what's coming at you. If there's more coming at you, like my ADHD wasn't diagnosed as a kid, it was diagnosed as an adult when I had three kids and I couldn't handle it anymore. So it only is diagnosed if it impairs with your capacity to fulfill what you're trying to fulfill. All right, so if you've got a world of people that are getting assaulted with information all the time, it's harder to navigate all the expectations. You're gonna see a higher problem with people coping. Dr. Cam (08:38) I'm going to, have a question about that because this is where I struggle a little bit to be honest. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (08:41) Okay. Can I pin that and can we pin it? There's one more thing that I think is really important. So you've got a complex condition that's way more complex than we understood. That's a process of elimination diagnosis. So there's no test for it. Although there's now beginning to be like QB Tech and some of these other assessments that can assist the assessment. And there's some online, I mean, it's way better. It's going to be easier 20 years from now to diagnose it than it is now. But there was a major smear campaign that was launched against ADHD in the late 90s and early 2000s. was multimillion dollars done by the same people who actually took on the tobacco industry. They went after teachers, they went after doctors, they went after school systems they demonized medication. And I'm not gonna go into the all of who was behind it because I don't need that lawsuit neither do you. But there is a podcast episode on my podcast on parenting with impact with Kelly Pickens talking about the smear campaign. So I think part of what we're still dealing with was that in the late 90s and early aughts, a lot of people were avoiding a diagnosis, providers were avoiding the diagnosis, parents didn't wanna get it or didn't want to use medication or try medication. So we all these adults now who were never identified and treated. And so that's kind of coming out of the woodwork. So that's kind of the context for what I think is going on. Now, what's the question? Dr. Cam (10:10) Well, and this is coming from a mom with a daughter with ADHD who has been medicated for many, many years. And I think the thing that I've always struggled with is, is there really a deep issue with my daughter or is the world becoming far more distra, there's far more distractions and pace and challenges that the human brain just is not as capable because it does not evolve as fast as technology and the world is evolving that the human brain just isn't doesn't have the capacity to handle it anymore. And so we're medicating them to be able to so this is this is where I go back and forth. clear this up for me. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (11:03) I you. feel you. Okay. All right. I'm so with you. I totally get it. Here's what I, here's how I see it. Okay. First of all, I do think that ADHD, the ADHD brain is an evolutionary adaptation. So I think we're actually more capable of handling what's going on in this world, not less. I like to call it, nobody can, what do you call it? Double task. multitask, but we can rapid sequential monotask like nobody's business, right? So I think that it's actually an evolutionary adaptation. That's just my, you know, and it's not that we can't cope with the world. It's that we can't always fulfill the expectations of the world. And so we need support to be able to do what the world expects of us to do. Dr. Cam (11:39) Right, that does sound evolutionary. Love that approach. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (12:02) But if you look at the greatest innovators, the greatest Nobel Prize winners, and like the greatest minds throughout history, most of them are probably neurodiverse. And so that capacity to think creatively, think outside the box, see things that other people don't see, make linkages and connections, that's extraordinary, right? And you still like think the absent mind of the professor at some point you still have to do the dishes and do the laundry and that's the stuff that's hard to do when your brain is thinking of quantum physics. So that's why I think it's so hard to adapt and why the more interesting and fascinating the world gets in some ways the harder it is for those of us who are engaged in that to deal with the mundane things of life. Dr. Cam (12:38) I wanna go down this path, I'm just excited to ask questions. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (12:57) I struggle with the term medicated my child and I used to use it too. Because I don't think it's medicating them. I think we are giving them medication that supports their brain to help them achieve what they want to achieve. And that goes back to that smear campaign, right? I had this conversation with one of my coaching groups, parents of group of teens, and we were talking about helping kids become their own medical managers. And we want them to make their choices and to enroll. And I've never met a teenager who doesn't at some point stop taking their meds before they come back to their meds, right? Because they want to be in control. And what I said to this group, and was really quite like I became emotional when I was saying it, I started taking medication almost 15 years ago. I take a very small dose, but it helps reduce my overwhelm. So I know what to focus on. And for about 10 years, every morning I would look at that pill and I go, is this a crutch? Do I really need this? Should I be taking this? And I was shaming myself because the world wants me to feel shame for needing this medication. And what I realized is I don't need it. but my life is so much better when I take it. I can be more of myself. I can be more present in my life. So do I need it? Could I function without it? Yeah. Would I be as effective and compassionate and present? Actually, no. So thank you for letting me. That's kind of my soapbox on it, but I just feel like, yeah. So go ahead. Dr. Cam (14:35) It such an important soapbox and I'm glad you got there because I think that is something that we've always talked about too with my daughter. It's like we met it, she uses medication for school because school is not an environment that her brain succeeds at as well without it. However, in other realms of her life, Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (15:05) It doesn't set her up for success. . Dr. Cam (15:10) She does not use medication because her brain is far more effective the way it is. So here's the path that you were going down that I really want to go down. Is this evolutionary thought of the brain, the neurodiversity that we look at often and society looks at often as a weakness, is actually them more evolved than a lot of us and is the strength but because the world hasn't caught up to them, they need medication to help them adapt and almost like lower down to our level to be able to cope with how the world has not caught up with them. I wanna go that route because that route makes, gives me chills when I think of my daughter. Like, look at her go. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (15:46) So my theory is that, and I'm talking about all nerd versus kids, because ADHD travels with lots of cousins and it's almost never alone, right? Like the kids with ADHD and dyslexia, they're the brilliant superpowers who can do anything because they understand that structure supports them and they're willing to use structure. They're not going to fight it. And they are amazing, right? What I think is that a lot of us are specialists in a generalist's world. That we have brains, whether it's autism or ADHD or anxiety, there's something about the way that we're wired, that when we find our gift, our specialty, or when we tap into that, I that's what my world has been when I discovered, when I created Impact. Like who I am as a coach and a parent and professional educator, like this is my sweet spot. This is where I'm supposed to be in the And when I'm here, I'm like bulletproof, I'm awesome. can be present and I can be engaged and I can go all day long. If I have to try to make dinner, I become like this really ridiculously weak, incapable adult. So I'm a specialist in this world. And when I can lean into my specialty, I can soar. But when I'm asked to perform as a generalist, when I'm expected to do well in science when I'm a language arts person. And then you only want me to focus on the science and the math because that's where my weakness is. So I should really work on that. And then you take me out of the art class that I'm really soaring in. Like it's counterintuitive, right? And so I do think, I think what, one of the things I've learned in the last few years, we've done a lot of work around neurodiversity education. I do training for corporate, do training for coaching groups on neurodiversity coaching, neurodiversity inclusion, and all that kind of stuff. And what I'm really clear at is that when you look at the full range of neurodiversity, it is probably about almost half the population. When you look at anxiety, ADHD, autism, depression, trauma, right? Let's just go to trauma for a minute and how many people in PTSD and how many people have had various trauma experiences in their lives. It rewires your brain. It may be circumstantial or situational. It may last, but everyone has some experience of being neurodivergent at some time. That's what neurodiversity is about. It's about all of our brains are wired different and some are not better than others. Dr. Cam (18:34) We're all neurodivergent. just on a different, we all are. We are, I like that. We are all neurodiverse. Absolutely. I love NeuroSpicy. That's awesome. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (18:51) We are all neurodiverse. Okay. You're all neurodiverse. I like to call us neuro spicy. You know, just a little. But we are all, everybody's got, everybody's brain is different. I mean, there are lots of similarities, but everybody's brain is different. And if we can tap into what makes each person's brain tick, there's this concept called universal design. And it's kind of the all boats will rise philosophy, right? The notion is if you, you, what we do for people with neurodiversity, the education we provide, if we adapt a classroom for kids with neurodiversity or for kids with neurodivergence, it's going to serve all of the kids in the classroom, right? Everybody's going to do better if we create basic accommodations. that give kids a sense of agency and autonomy and a voice, right? Everybody's gonna do better if we don't give them a ton of busy work and we help them learn what they need to learn without wasting their time. And so if we begin to see that, and this is the same in the workplace, everybody's gonna do better if we're onboarding somebody in a work environment and we find out, would you be better to communicate with this in text or video or like, If we ask people how they process information and how they motivate themselves, and then we play to that, it's going to benefit everyone. So that's where I think we're going, but I think we've got a few decades before we actually get there. Yeah, well, you know, it takes some time. Dr. Cam (20:34) Yeah, it's a slow moving boat, isn't it? It takes some time to tend to things. So in the meantime, we've got a teenager who has been diagnosed with ADHD or autism or one of the many, right? But the expectation is for them to go to school, sit in school and do well in school and their brain does better elsewhere. And that is not where their brain functions at its best. How do we as parents support our kids going through there without them feeling like they're broken, which happens quite a lot. And they're treated that way often in school. That's been a big issue for my daughter and I. How do we help them maintain that sense of self-esteem and that belief in themselves and help them find their strengths? Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (21:30) Great question. and as you can imagine, I could talk all day about it, right? So everything I do is about that. my, my short answer is you take a coach approach, a neurodiversity informed coach approach. When, when I learned how to use coaching skills to communicate differently with my kid and with their teachers and with everybody else around them, it shifted everything. If I were to point to what's fundamental to that, it's about. It's about cultivating a sense of agency, fostering their ownership and helping them see their why, what's in it for them. And, you know, collaborative problem solving, but not just what are the lacking skills, which is great, but still deficit based, right? But to say, okay, so I was, was working with a client this morning, her kids are younger. So maybe, maybe I can extrapolate this to a teenage example. Okay. Because we do a lot of work with parents of teens and young adults. We have groups for parents of teens and groups for parents of young adults. You got a kid who's trying to get out the door to go to school, who wants to go to school, who is having a really hard time waking up in the morning. And maybe they don't want to go to school, and that's a different conversation. But let's assume you've gotten the relationship. So you lean into the relationship and you build some trust and you're communicating better. And you've gotten to the point where you're collaborating and they want to be able to get to school, but it's a struggle. Okay, we all know the scenario. It happens a lot. Okay, so in our model, we talk about taking aim. So understand that what I've just said is the assumption that you've done a lot of work already. You've really leaned into the relationship. You've built trust because what happens with teens is we fall out of trust with them and they fall out of trust with us and they fall out of trust with themselves. So done that work and we're communicating better. So now we can begin to really collaborate. So you start by taking aim, and instead of taking aim on mornings, you say, okay, what's the one thing that if we change that, it's gonna start having a cascading effect? What's the one tweak? And it might be getting out of bed when the alarm goes off. Okay, so they've set the alarm, the alarm's going off, you're walking by, you're trying not to yell and scream because they're not getting out of bed, and then you say, you gotta get out of bed, and then they get mad at you because you're already aggravated, right? We don't know the scenario at all, I'm sure. So collaborative problem solving would be going to the kid and saying, I really get that you're trying to get out to go to school in the morning on time and that it's hard and that you're setting your alarm. How do you want me to handle it when I do hear the alarm going off and you haven't gotten out of bed? What would you like me to do? So now that you're not saying you need to, you're assuming that by this point you've been collaborating and now they've taken ownership. They've got the agency. They just need some help. How can I support you? What would be useful for you? And this is a really true story. When we took this approach with my eldest at the time, who was maybe a little young, maybe 15, 14, 15. And after trying every alarm and the bed shaking alarm and the alarm that ran across the room, and we tried everything, Nothing was working. They said, don't you come in with a spray bottle? Now, a water bottle. Kids don't try this at home. I am not suggesting to any of your parents that you go get a spray bottle and tell your kid you're going to. But this came from my kid, this idea, because they like to play and they're very playful with their father. And so we were like, OK, you sure? Yeah, I'm sure. Whatever. Right. So we get in there and I'm down in the kitchen one morning and I hear this really loud noise and it's like really loud and I go running upstairs and my husband and my child are hysterically laughing. My child has got the corner of the bed by the hands on the ground and their dad's got their ankle and is pulling them across the floor and they're pulling the bed across the floor. Okay. And it's loud and they're cackling with laughter and they may have been late to school because we were having so much fun. Right. But, the notion here was that we were supporting them in their agenda of trying to get out of bed instead of making it our agenda. So we need to want for them more than we want from them. And if we want for them to support them in their agenda, then we can do all kinds of crazy things because it's their agenda. And we're just experimenting with them and helping them try different things. But if it's our agenda and we're like, well, you need to set the alarm and put it across the room and you should be like, if our hands are on our hips, we're probably not collaborating, right? Dr. Cam (26:24) We're not, are, I love that for them, not what you expect from them is beautiful. And once again, this is good for every child, not just neurodiverse. Like this is foundational. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (26:28) Yes, for them, not from them. Because so much. Everybody, right? That's right. Well, it has to do with whose expectations is it, right? Because we have this tendency to assume that if we expect something or the world expects something of us and our kids, that that's the right thing. And the truth is, I mean, the big shift in my family happened when I stopped trying to listen to the world's expectations and I started meeting my kids where they were and figuring out what was an appropriate expectation to set for this kid at this time in this moment. Like that's the shift. It's meet them where they are and raise the bar from there. Instead of setting the bar up here because everybody should because they're 12 or 15 or 22, you know, like that just doesn't work. Dr. Cam (27:12) It doesn't work. That was your alarm that you have to go, wasn't it? Yeah, so yeah, I think this is so key because it is, it's giving them ownership. And also if our kids are neurodiverse, and as we just said, we all are, it doesn't mean our solution is going to work for them because we have a different brain than they do. So when we keep trying to push our solution, Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (27:24) It's okay. We'll wrap up. They'll be there in a minute. Dr. Cam (27:50) onto them and they get mad at them for not using our solution wisely, we're the ones at fault. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (27:57) That's right. I just went upstairs after talking to this client and told my husband, I'm like, do you remember being the weatherman? He's like, what are you talking about? We wanted to change warnings and we worked with our kids and I sat down with him. like, what will work? And our kids are the ones who said to me, one, we need to wake up earlier. I was letting them wait till the last couple of minutes because I wanted them to get to sleep. They're like, we're not getting enough time and you're rushing us. And two, we don't want to rush. And three, we don't want you to tell us we're running late. So they came up with the idea that at a certain agreed upon time, instead of coming out and saying, you need to be downstairs in 10 minutes, dad would come out and give them the weather report. And when he gave the weather report, they knew what time it was. It gave them an idea of what to wear and they could manage their time around that. And I can't say it was a perfect fix immediately, but I can say that it worked and we used it for years because it was their idea was their agency, it worked for them. I wouldn't have come up with it, it was brilliant. Right? Dr. Cam (28:58) Yeah. Yep. I love that. And when you think about it, the more important skill is not getting up. It's figuring out how you get up. That's the skill. So if we take that away from them, then we're taking away their ability to learn to problem solve, which is a complex skill that you have to practice over over over again. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (29:08) Yes. Our job as parents, I think, is to be in the process of problem solving with our kids again and again and again and again and And letting them lead, collaborate, support, collaborate. We have a model where there are four phases of parents. And so the middle two that we need to be in most of all is collaborate with them until, share the agenda till it's their agenda and then support them in their agenda. Share the agenda. Dr. Cam (29:31) and letting them lead. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (29:50) until it's their agenda and then move in to support them in their agenda. And we just wanna keep doing that again and again as often as we can. Dr. Cam (29:57) Yeah, I love that. So what is one takeaway that you want to make sure parents step away with from this episode? Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (30:06) my gosh, what I really want to do is say to the parents listening, what's one insight you've gotten from this conversation? What's one thing you want to take away from this conversation that you want to apply in your life? Because that, I could tell them, right? And I would say that probably if I were to give you one, it would be, God, there's so many is to lean into the relationship, right? Build the trust, because that's where it all comes from. And I also want them to think about what they take away from this, because it's really, that's what's most important. Dr. Cam (30:40) I love that. you just modeled. Well, that's what I was just pointing out is you just modeled how to coach. You're not telling them the answer. You are basically just setting it up for them to figure out the answer. So that was a beautiful example of exactly what we want parents to be doing. I love that. Aline, how do, how do people find you? Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (30:50) Yeah. Thank you. This was great. Well, we have a podcast too. And if you're listening, you're probably a podcaster. So the Parenting with Impact podcast, wherever you podcast, where sometimes I interview experts, sometimes it's Diane and me, know, spitballing about what's been going on. Sometimes we have clients on and do success stories. So it's fun. we're coming up next year. We'll hit our 200th episode. So good podcast, great blog, great website, impactparents.com. Lots of free gifts and downloads and you know come check us out if you are a parent of a complex kid of any age 4 to 44 There's lots of stuff to help you learn how to take a coach approach. That's neurodiversity informed And you know whether it's taking our sanity school class or joining coaching groups or listen to the podcast Come play with us Dr. Cam (31:57) That's fantastic. What a great resource. Thank you for doing that. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (32:01) Thank you. Thanks for asking. Thanks for having me. I hope I know we've had to cut this a little short, so maybe I can come back and we can play again. I'm inviting myself back because you're great. Dr. Cam (32:07) We can have there's so much to do. Invite yourself. There's so much I can come on your show. We can talk about it there too. Yeah, this we can talk for this about hours. Talk about this for hours. All right. Thank you so much. All right. Elaine Taylor-Klaus (she/her) (32:14) That would be great. We're going to do it. We'll do it here. Absolutely. Thanks for having me again. ABOUT THE SHOW The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Hashtags #ParentingTeens #Neurodiversity #ADHDParenting #TeenConfidence…

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vor 17 weeks30:29

30:29

In this episode, Dr. Cam sits down with Dr. Fiona Ghiglione to dive into the complex world of teen girl friendships. They discuss the challenges of peer pressure, loneliness, and relational aggression, as well as how parents can help their daughters build healthy, lasting relationships. Dr. Ghiglione shares practical strategies for navigating friendship drama, understanding the "seasons" of friendships, and teaching girls to handle social struggles with confidence. The episode also explores the impact of social media on teen friendships and why parents should focus on empowerment over rescue. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE Why teen girl friendships can be so challenging How to help your daughter navigate friendship drama without taking over The impact of relational aggression and social media on teen friendships How to recognize the "seasons" of friendships and support your teen through them Practical strategies to build your daughter’s confidence and resilience in friendships 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Teen friendships can be tough. Many girls struggle with peer pressure, loneliness, and relational aggression. Middle school is peak friendship drama. Understanding these challenges helps parents guide their daughters effectively. Friendships evolve over time. Teaching your teen about the different “seasons” of friendships can help them navigate change. Create a safe space for open conversations. Encourage your daughter to express her feelings without immediately jumping in to fix problems. Empower, don’t rescue. Equip your teen with tools to handle conflict, rather than solving issues for them. ENJOYING THE SHOW? Help other parents find the support they need! Share your favorite episode, leave a rating and review, and don’t forget to hit Follow so you never miss another solution-packed episode! RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Free Resource: Download 10 Mindful Practices for Preteens PDF Exclusive Offer: Get €20 off your first mentoring session by emailing Fiona directly at fiona@motheringgirls.com EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 Navigating the Challenges of Teen Friendships 03:59 Understanding the Dynamics of Friendship Drama 09:59 The Seasons of Friendships: Navigating Mean Behavior 20:06 Supporting Our Daughters Through Friendship Struggles 27:59 Empowering Girls to Build Healthy Relationships CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dr. Fiona Ghiglione Website: MotheringGirls.com Instagram: @motheringgirls LinkedIn: Dr. Fiona Ghiglione CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell THE FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:02) Navigating friendships can be really challenging for our teen girls, right? As parents, it's tough to watch them struggle with feelings of loneliness, peer pressure, and the occasional friend drama or a lot of friend drama. All we want is for our daughters to feel happy, connected, and surrounded by friends who truly support them. I'm excited to introduce you to Dr. Fiona Giglione, an assistant professor, educator, and the founder of Mothering Girls. Fiona specializes in coaching girls on building friendships, boosting self-confidence, and navigating the complexities of social media too. In our conversation today, we're going to dive into some effective strategies to help empower our daughters to build meaningful friendships, handle toxic friendships, and boost their confidence as a friend. Welcome Dr. Fiona, how are you? Fiona (00:50) Very good. Thank you for inviting me today. It's wonderful to be here. Dr. Cam (00:54) Absolutely. So Dr. Fiona, first start with how did you, what inspired you to start mothering girls? Fiona (01:02) Well, my journey with mother and girls really started through my own experience raising my own girls. And there's one specific experience I had when my eldest daughter was nine and my youngest daughter was five. I was living in Singapore at the time and I just began noticing that the commentary and the way that people were interacting with our girls, my daughters and also their friends started changing quite radically. know, when they were five and six and they were running around in their frozen dresses, people's commentaries would be, aren't they wonderful? You know, I love her confidence and her spark or how wonderful is it to have girls? And I just found that when the girls started kind of edging towards the preteen years, so we kind of, eight, nine, sure, they had a bit more sass, you know. But the commentary, just, was very aware of what people were saying and how it was changing. It was, it was kind of becoming more, you know, wait until she's in the teen years or, you know, girls are really emotional and, know, and I was hearing from boy moms saying, you know, I'm glad, glad I don't have boys, you know. And as a research psychologist, I suppose, like I, I couldn't stop thinking about this. couldn't stop and wonder two questions in particular I had in my head. Like the first one was, what is this doing to our girls? Like our girls were hearing this, know, mom's talk in this way. And I'm thinking, what messages are they receiving from this? You know, about what it is to be a girl heading into these years, like you know what are the teen years going to be like, but also just their emotions, you know, is it safe to, you know, explore my emotions, say my emotions or not? Anyway, that was the first question. And then the second question that kept on my mind was, if we take this fear based approach, if we're really going into these years afraid and thinking they're going to be the worst, what's that doing to our relationship with our girls? I mean, we know about what happens in the prefrontal cortex or in our brains in general, when we are under, you know, a fear response, we close off, we change the way that we change what we're paying attention to. We change, you know, how we're feeling about each other and we're we're less curious. So I guess I just started leaning into this. started researching a little bit more and thinking about it a bit more and thinking we need a different way. We definitely needed a different narrative, but I wanted to be able to maybe fill the gap a little bit and help parents do it a bit differently and help, you know, kind of empower the girls. Yeah. Dr. Cam (03:50) I love that. that's one thing too, Dr. Fiona, that I will talk about too, is that when we go into the teen years with this preconceived notion of what those teen years are going to be like, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because we approach it already without understanding, we approach it with assumption, and it goes way south very quickly. So I love that you are out there correcting that assumption, changing that story so we don't approach it from that perspective and we give our girls a chance. That's amazing. So let's, today we really want to talk about friendships because I know this particularly is difficult for teen, tween and teen girls, especially middle school. Middle school is like friendship hell. Let's just put it real, right? This is where all the friendship drama comes. There's a lot of friendship, like emotional bullying. Fiona (04:31) Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Dr. Cam (04:58) My daughter personally went through a lot of drama and teen. She's 18. She's still traumatized by the experience of friendships and going bad. So first explain to us, why do friendships become so difficult at this age for girls? Fiona (05:05) If we look at the research, there are a few things that we're seeing, okay. We're seeing, and some of them are quite concerning trends, I would have to say. We're seeing increases in relational aggression. We're seeing increases in a kind of narcissism, self-centeredness, increases in loneliness, and decreases in empathy, okay. So, when you put this all together and you put it in alongside the rise of technology, it makes for a very curious picture as to like, what is going on with our girls? And girls in general, like, they place a lot of emphasis on friendships. It's very important for them. And I think that there's all of that happening, but then there's also, when I'm talking to girls directly, girls want closer friendships. They want less drama. It's not like they want, you know, they're creating this because it's fun. So there's these two things happening in parallel. They want closer friendship, they want support, they want help, and they also want a good relationship with parents as well. It's hard to unpack exactly why this is happening. think technology is playing a big factor in it, in the way that it's changing relationships and the way that we communicate. But yeah, I guess alongside the challenges that we're facing, we also have girls who are willing to do it differently if they have the guidance and the support. Dr. Cam (06:56) At this age too, the relationships become a lot more complex, right? It's no longer like, you like this toy and I like this toy, so we must be friends. The dynamics become much deeper and kids are trying to figure out. And as you mentioned, the need to belong becomes extremely important at this age. So making friends, basically kids look at them, their value based on do other people like me? And so when people, when they're struggling to make friends, they're getting this message, I'm not that likable. And so they kind of get deeper. But then there's also the kids. So we've got self-esteem issues there, but then we've got the kids, particularly the girls that are mean. Where does this meanness come from and this need to kind of gang up on other girls or to emotionally shut them out sometimes. Where does that come from? Fiona (07:54) I just wanted to stop for a second and just say it is such a difficult thing to watch your child go through this. And heartbreaking almost to have girls come home and say things like, you know, I was alone on the playground today or, you know, my friends created a WhatsApp group and they left me, so just being able to hear this is so, so hard for us as parents to know how to help. And we are shocked as to like why girls are so mean. And it can, you know, obviously be amplified by the fact that, you know, if we've had meanness when we were younger, you know, that can be even more difficult for us. So, but I'm a very big believer that friendships in middle school and high school are also an amazing training ground for relationships in life. Okay. And we know that in life, there are plenty of mean people and there are plenty of people who do mean things, right? And so one of the ways that I try to explain it to the families that I work with is that friendships have different seasons. And if we are to help our girls understand why people doing these different things, understand the behaviors that might come up. And also know how to deal with them. We need to have specific nuanced tools for different parts of different seasons that they're gonna go through and they're gonna face. And mean behavior is one of those. You can understand like mean behavior is winter. Winter is where there's storms and serious challenges and so we need to be able to really give girls tools to be able to deal with mean behavior. And so, know, mean behavior is relational aggression. We know that girls do that a lot more than boys leaving, you know, leaving other girls out gossip, you know, and bullying, you know, bullying falls under this winter category of like really toxic behavior of, you know, on purpose power differential repetitive kind of behaviours. Dr. Cam (10:19) One of the things I see is that bullying almost comes from the same place of the needing to belong because it is a way when you join forces with other people to make this other person the scapegoat, you're connecting with them. So it's an unhealthy way to connect because someone gets, but the underlying need is exactly the same, which is why it's very hard to stop that because they're getting their needs filled by connecting with somebody. So I love this idea of the different weathers and talking to our kids about our friendships are going to go through different seasons. Help us understand how to help our kids, especially when, let's talk about the different seasons. So we're going through a season where all of a sudden it feels like your friends are turning against you. You're like, they were my friend. Fiona (10:51) 100%. Dr. Cam (11:13) Now someone else came into the dynamic and is taking them away or they're saying mean things to me. How do we help our girls address that? That's a hard one for parents too because we're like, I just want to fix it. Fiona (11:26) Yeah, 100%. I mean, I think the first thing to really delve into is to inquire, right? We need to spend some serious time with our girls inquiring, okay, tell me what did that look like? What was it like at lunchtime? What did you do? What did your friends do? And trying to unpack instead, rather than jumping in and judging and, that's it, I'm gonna, mama bear I'm going to fix this problem for you. We want to inquire first. We want to get a good picture of what's going on, you know, and in part of that picture, we also want to understand like what's going on for our daughter as well, you know. And then of course, you know, we want to empathise with her and really help her understand that if she's feeling left out and she, you know, she's feeling sad, like that is a normal reaction to that kind of behaviour. You know, I would feel that way and sitting with that for a while, you know, so that she has that kind of, she has that person that really is helping her process it in a different way, right? But I think a lot of like, it depends on how toxic, what the toxicity is, right? I mean, I think there's two ways that I teach girls that they can deal with toxic behavior. First one is like a quick comeback, you know, having those things that we can say to other girls who are doing things on purpose, you know, quick comeback like, Whoa, that was harsh. Being able to get out of the situation if they need and giving themselves permission to be able to leave. And obviously if things are extreme, girls, and this is part of educating around winter is that those red flags, if you see those red flags, this is time where you need help. You need to get someone to come in and help you with these things. When we're looking at some of the other seasons like, know, friendship conflicts, there is a difference between friendship conflicts. Yeah. And they need to, if they understand what autumn is and they understand what winter is, you know, friendship conflicts will happen because we're complex human beings and we like, we will have different interests and we will have different opinions. And, know, these things come up a lot in with girls, right? You know, one wants to play this one wants to play that or you know, misinterpretation of things that they've said at school. And so it is also really important for our girls to be able to learn to kind of step away and think about that. Like, you know, take five is a teacher, a lot of the girls that I work with just take five, leave the situation if you can think about this, if it's not an urgent situation, if it's not a dangerous situation, everything can wait five minutes or overnight even before you respond. And to really be able to like, you know, to think about what did you want? What did she want? You know, what is going on here? Like what is the conflict about and trying to help girls unpack that, you know? Yeah. And I think the interesting thing is that like, you know, they're confused. That's where the relationship with us comes in. Right? Like we need to be building foundations early in the preteens that our girls feel comfortable coming to us. They feel like it's a safe space. They're not going to be judged, that they're not going to be burdened with solutions from us, that they can come and they can process these things and find solutions in the vicinity of like us. Dr. Cam (14:51) I think the big thing I see too is when we're going through this, and I like the quick comebacks. I saw an interview with Christine Chenoweth the other day and she learned to just say, I'm going to pray for you. When people said nasty things, she would just reply, well, I will pray for you. And it just kind of threw people off because it was like, But I think also understanding how we can help support our kids, having that connection with them so that they learn not to create this as part of their identity as I'm not a good friend or I'm not likable and change it to I'm a good friend, I'm likable, they're not the right person for me. How do we help them distinguish that so they don't create this low self-esteem because they can't keep some of these toxic friendships? Fiona (15:45) I think that's where, it's so important for us as parents to keep budding new connections, like, and give them as many friendship experiences as possible. Because if you think about it, like if that's the only experience of relating, right. And that's, and it's negative and that's all they're getting, then of course it's easy to see that you're the generalization that you're going to be making is that there's something wrong with me. Now, if you've got plenty of different friendship groups and in some of those groups they celebrate you and they lift you up and they think you're amazing and then in other groups not so much. Then you can start to generalise, okay hold on, wait, but if I'm okay there then it couldn't be me because you've got these other experiences and I feel like sometimes it goes wrong because we put so much emphasis on this one best friend or this group of friends. And our girls, you know, don't have that diversity of experience. mean, it's also good for them to just learn how to relate to different people, right? In different settings and have that experience as well. And it's doing great things for their brain as well. Dr. Cam (17:07) It's very important to do that. know, I mean, like I said, my daughter had so much trauma in a certain friendship group in middle school, but what she came out of was, how do I recognize a good friend from a not good friend? And so her friendships now are incredible. It's a small group and it's people that support her for her. And so she was able to come through that getting a very important skill and I think it's helping our kids learn that. One thing I think parents come from though and we fear a little bit is when we see our kids struggling with friendships, that taps into our fear. Like, how is my kid not going to be liked? What do I need to do? And we start focusing very hard on making them more likable to people. Like, how do I fix my kid to be more likable? I've seen this, you know, a lot. Well, their behavior needs to change. Is that okay? Should we be doing that or what message is that sending to our kids? Fiona (18:14) Yeah, I tried really hard to stray away from the whole likeability, you know, concept. But what I do talk to girls a lot about is, you know, and this happens, what I find is girls are often very lonely, even if they're in friendship, sometimes they feel this loneliness, right? And so I ask them when, because they want more connection. So when do you feel the most connected? And when do you feel the least connected? what's happening and we unpack that a little bit. So instead of focusing on, on likability, focusing on quality, the quality of the relationship of like, of what does it give her? How does she feel, you know, and helping her, it's almost, it's a little bit of like of an experiment really. It's like helping her think about this on a regular basis means that, you know, sometimes my daughter will come home and she said today, mom, I had a great friendship day because you know, my friend, you know, said something nice to me or whatever. And I'd say, well, you know, that sounds like you really felt like you were connected in that moment. And over time we unpack like those. And so she'll look for that more, you know, if she feels more connected when she's talking about something that she really loves with a friend, you know, or they're doing something specific together, then you, can look for more of those kinds of moments. And that's where you see your girls light up and have that spark, you know, in friendships. and then she'll stay away from the red flag, the things that don't connect her. there's a whole, we could have a whole talk on like technology and friendships. But friendship, there's so much to unpack about connections online. And I talked to my daughter about how did you feel when you were talking to your friends online? How do you feel when you're at face-to-face doing things face-to-face? There's a really different feeling that you get when you're speaking in these different apps or whatever versus having real life connections. So I think it's important to focus on that for the girls. Dr. Cam (20:16) There's so many pieces to this. Can we do a quick kind of step by step? Your daughter comes home, she's really upset, she's having friend drama, her friends are being mean. What do parents do in that moment? Fiona (20:37) I think the first thing to do is to go get a tea and to take her to a spot that she feels comfortable in and to just give her time to talk about it. No advice, no, you know, we can ask questions, but just let her talk and get it out and be a safe space for that. you know, I feel like it's really important for her to express all of that emotion and get it all out, but I think sometimes there's a point at which you can, there can be co-rumination, right? Like you're talking about it so much that you're not, there's, there's, not going anywhere. So I think at some stage it's good to kind of pivot to what would you like to do about this? You know, what can we, what's in your control? What, let's think about some things that you could do. Some things you can say, do you need extra support? You know, let's make a plan kind of thing together. Dr. Cam (21:34) Nothing in that was, let's fix this, let's go yell at the other parents, let's go make sure that you get to be friends. Like there's no pressure to have to have friends. And I think that's one of the things I see a lot, that parents get so worried if their kids are struggling with friends, that it becomes more about how do I get my kid to have friends rather than how do I help my kid just feel okay as they are right now. And once they feel confident, making friends is a lot easier, but feeling the pressure to make friends when you're not feeling good about yourself just makes you feel worse about yourself. So I love that it's just, just let them talk, validate what they're feeling, let them go through it. And then what's in your control. that's spot on perfect. I love it. Fiona (22:12) 100%. What is really interesting with the, you know, what you were saying about jumping in and calling friends, you know, the parents of the friends which happened, you know, we want to do, but what can happen, and it's happened with me many times with my girls, is that that same friend, you know, can move into a different season with our daughters and they become best friends, you know, and they work it out on their own or, know, and so this little girl that like, you know, was doing all these main things and then she's coming over to my house and spending like afternoons at my house and I see a totally different side to her. So I feel like if we jump in too soon, she misses the learning that comes from it, but also you never know what's gonna happen with these friendships and these girls, like they're just learning. Dr. Cam (23:11) It is such a good point. Like, we can't take sides. We can't beat up the other girl because you're right, they may become friends and then that's all. But we also don't want to sit there and just take our kid's side. Like, we don't want to make sure we take the other kid's side too and be like, well, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? And take the kid's perspective that is being mean to our kid or is pushing them away because then our kid doesn't feel like we're on their side. No sides are taken. We're just listening. Very important, yeah. I think we get tempted to talk about, and I've even done this, like kind of put the other person down going, well, they don't deserve you as a friend, but that is not a good move either. Tempting. Fiona (23:54) Yeah, it's really complex. you know, and there are a lot of ands. I talked to the girls about this as well. you know, what are you feeling? And what is she feeling? And sometimes it's even what are you feeling? And she will say sad and angry and kind of, you know, like there's so much complexity. It just goes on and on. And so I think it's important to see that it is more than just what she's feeling. It's what other girl's feeling it's what the context is you know so there's a lot of ends there to be able to explore as well with her yeah. Dr. Cam (24:25) That's a great way to do it because it is important for them to look at the other side because it's easy to just get stuck. But we can do it the way you're saying it is a way to do it without taking sides. It's just helping them dig a little bit deeper. So what have we missed? I wanted to ask you. So what happens if your kid, your daughter is the one being mean to somebody else? How do we address that? Fiona (24:54) Well, I think that that can be very difficult because sometimes we don't see that. And so where do we get the information from? So if it's something that, you know, a parent, a teacher has observed, I think then then we have some good data to be able to go to and say, look, this is this seems to be what's happening. Tell me about this. Like what happened? And I think we always need to give our girls the opportunity to be able to speak for themselves because it's very easy to misinterpret. And also where's the learning in it, right? We want our girls to be able to not feel judged and shamed about the whole thing, but we wanna understand like, you know, what was going on so that we can then help prevent it in the future. So always starting obviously with just asking her about it. And I think it's the same kind of process. It's you've got to want it. You want to sit with the other emotions. Maybe she was feeling angry, you know, and then, and you know, talking about what she did and how effective that was in getting what she wanted. and then being able to unpack, like, what would you do differently? You know? but you know, sometimes if I guess, if it's repetitive, you want to get some professional help to be able to get help her kind of break that habit and dig a bit deeper as to what's going on.. Dr. Cam (26:13) It's so what you were saying is so important. It's about getting to the why of why they're doing it rather than the assumption of, my gosh, my kid is becoming a bully and bad kid. And now I'm going to be just show them my disappointment in that behavior and try to punish them because they need to stop that behavior. And we're not addressing what's actually going on underneath. So we could be actually piling more on the very thing that's making them feel like they need to bully and making it worse rather than making it better. So I love that we're giving them the benefit of the doubt and understanding what is this coping mechanism or what is the purpose of doing this? What are they getting from it? Because it may be a sense of belonging, right? Fiona (26:45) Absolutely. And I think, but I also think that, you know, these kinds of behaviors sometimes come, these impulsive behaviors come from a sense of not being able to regulate your emotion, right? Like you can feel really scary, especially to an eight or a nine year old, to have this huge angry emotion to something that's happened to them, right? And they don't know where to take that, what to do with that. And that's why I think I'm such a big advocate for, know, mindfulness in terms of being able to give them the tools to be able to bring their nervous system back into a parasympathetic kind of state so that they then have the capacity to be able to think clearly in these situations. But yeah, it's tough. Dr. Cam (27:39) That's really important. So of all that we've talked about, what is the big action item or takeaway that parents need to have from this to help their daughters navigate their tricky friendships? Fiona (27:59) Look, I think that don't underestimate how important you are as a parent, like, and how much role overall you're going to play in being able to guide them to, have healthy relationships, not just friendships, but relationships down the track. Like we are coaching them through this. are like, we are a secure base and we don't want to join the storm. want to like, just, we want them to come to us and ground them and help them learn something really valuable from that. Right. So all of these things are important teaching moments. And I think that like we shouldn't underestimate just how important we are and how much the girls want us to come to us to be able to talk to us about these things. So we need to be really be showing them from early that it is safe, it's okay. And that we are here to kind of, know, give them the tools that they need, suppose. Yeah. Dr. Cam (28:53) Don't join the storm. That's awesome. That's exactly it. Don't join the storm. Be the center. Be the part that helps outside. Calm the storm. Let them be the calming space for them to calm their storm. Love that. Amazing. Dr. Fiona, where can people find you? Fiona (28:56) Don't join the storm. You can find me on Instagram at motheringgirls and I think, will you share my website? Yeah. Dr. Cam (29:20) I will put all the links in the show notes for sure. Thank you. Fiona (29:23) Yeah, and I have a friendship journal that kind of guides girls through the different stages of friendship. So it has some tools, has some tips, and lots of fillable pages so that they can reflect on their own friendships along the way. Dr. Cam (29:28) That's fantastic. I will definitely include that link too. It sounds like a really great tool. Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Fiona. Appreciate it. Fiona (29:48) You're welcome. Thank you for having me. It's been wonderful. ABOUT THE SHOW The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you're struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. #teenfriendships #parentingtips #raisingteengirls #friendshipdrama…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

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Empowering Girls: Combating Gender Bias & Sexism for a Confident Future 44:27

vor 18 weeks44:27

44:27

Dr. Cam and Dr. Jo-Ann Finkelstein take a deep dive into the impact of gender bias and sexism on young girls. They discuss how societal messages affect girls' confidence, self-worth, and opportunities. Dr. Finkelstein shares powerful insights on validating girls' experiences, teaching self-advocacy, and redefining their value beyond appearance. The conversation also highlights the importance of helping girls express emotions like anger, recognize microaggressions, and take up space in a world that often tries to shrink them. Plus, they explore how parents can raise empathetic sons who challenge gender norms. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE How gender bias and societal expectations impact girls' confidence Why teaching girls to express anger and take up space is crucial The power of validating girls’ experiences and building self-advocacy skills How to raise sons who recognize and challenge gender bias Practical ways parents can help their daughters navigate sexism 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Girls receive constant messages of invisibility and unworthiness. Parents play a key role in reshaping these narratives. Validating girls' experiences is essential. It helps them feel heard and strengthens their self-esteem. Teaching girls self-advocacy starts early. Encouraging them to speak up and set boundaries builds confidence. Society often prioritizes masculine traits. It’s important to teach girls (and boys) that all traits have value. Empowering girls requires action. Parents must actively challenge bias, model emotional expression, and foster resilience. 🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode, leave a rating and review, and help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical, real-world parenting strategies. Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫 🔔 Hit Follow so you never miss another solution-packed episode! RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Free Resource: Download 10 Mindful Practices for Preteens PDF Exclusive Offer: Work with Dr. Jo-Ann Finkelstein by visiting Jo-Ann Finkelstein EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 Understanding Gender Bias and Its Impact 06:05 Empowering Girls in a Biased World 14:10 Redefining Value Beyond Appearance 19:07 Building Confidence and Advocacy Skills 22:11 Empowering Girls to Express Emotions 25:00 Teaching Girls to Take Up Space 28:25 Recognizing and Addressing Microaggressions 32:49 Navigating Gender Bias and Self-Advocacy 37:11 Raising Empathetic Sons 42:24 Key Takeaways for Parents CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dr. Jo-Ann Finkelstein Website: Jo-Ann Finkelstein Instagram: @JoAnnFinkelstein LinkedIn: Jo-Ann Finkelstein CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell THE FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:00) In today's episode, we tackle a critical issue that affects countless young girls, sexism and gender bias. Did you know that as of 2023, women still earn about 82 cents for every dollar earned by men or that women hold just 27 % of executive positions in Fortune 500 companies despite making up nearly half of the workforce? The reality is that gender bias starts early and can significantly impact girls' confidence, opportunities and futures. That's why I'm looking forward to talking to Dr. Joanne Finkelstein, a clinical psychologist and author of Sexism and Sensibility, Raising Empowered Resilient Girls in the Modern World. Dr. Finkelstein is here to share practical strategies for protecting our daughters from these pervasive issues, fostering their resilience and empowering them to navigate a world where gender bias still unfortunately exists. Welcome Dr.. Finkelstein. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (00:59) It's so great to be here, Dr. Cam. Dr. Cam (01:02) So good to have you. So this is such an important topic. Let's start first. Why are you interested in this? What kind of inspired you to talk about and help girls deal with gender bias and sexism? Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (01:16) I grew up in Canada. You know, I live in the States, but I grew up in Canada with three brothers. Canada, know, hockey is a national obsession. So I like to tell this story because it didn't make it into the book, but it has become family lore. And my family was really surprised that it didn't make it into the book. In any case. My three brothers, like they love to play hockey and I wanted to play too. So I asked my parents for, you know, a hockey stick. And to my delight, they bought me one. But to my horror, it was bright pink and looked like a toy version of my brother's. And by the way, you will find out along the way, I don't have anything against pink, but that is not what I was looking for, right? Dr. Cam (01:47) But it was a big statement. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (02:09) It was a big statement and I've worked with girls and women for the last 24 plus years in my private practice. And what I discovered is that my pink hockey stick is every girl's story, right? Girls constantly get messages that make them feel unseen, unheard, not taken seriously. And I witness, right, on a daily basis how harmful these messages are to my patient's sense of self and sense of potential. The messages aret hey seem small, right? But they're like tiny psychological paper cuts that accumulate and become these festering wounds of self-doubt over time. And growing up, when I would get upset about gender differences, people insisted that they didn't exist or they'd say, you're too sensitive or stop being so dramatic. And all your listeners out there, they know this, right? Because they're classic comments. But at the time, I didn't know that. So in any case, Fast forward to avoid criticism, I learned to hide my feelings and it wasn't until years later when I was doing a master's degree that I really began to understand that experience. And it happened because I mentioned in a paper for my developmental psychology class that I'd been accused of overreacting when I felt demeaned. And the professor scribbled in the margins, that's what people say to talk girls out of their feelings. It was such a validating moment for me. Dr. Cam (03:34) That's great. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (03:35) So basically, to get to a long story, validating girls' experiences and opening parents' eyes to the effects of sexism and gender bias are why I wrote the book. There two reasons why I Dr. Cam (03:50) I love that. And I think awareness is so important because I see even women being biased and sexist to other women because it is so great, you know, just pounded in our head. And I can remember, because I mean, anybody that is an adult woman has either experienced most likely a lot or knows people that have experienced extreme sexism and gender bias. And I remember pointing out at one point at a job that the traits of a leader as defined of what a leader is are traits that define the typical best traits of a man and what defines a bitch as a woman. You're, you, you have no chance. Yeah, you have no chance of being a leader because if you're a woman and have the traits of a leader, then you are disliked so much. So it's, Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (04:32) That is exactly right. And it's true. I mean, it's bears out in the research. Right, or if you do become a leader, right, you are jumping through so many hoops to not be perceived as a bitch and then often you are, are, you know, sort of like what's happening with Kamala Harris and, you know, people are saying you're too soft. So you really are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Dr. Cam (04:49) I think calling attention to these and also calling attention and they've shown so many times that actually some of the traits that are typical, there are gender differences. We've got to be real with that. But I think what it is is what we value is more of the masculine and what we use is insults. Like you fight like a girl, you run like a girl, you do this like a girl. They're insults rather than showing some of the strengths that are typical feminine traits actually are amazing in different roles, but we undermine them. So let's start with, we've got our teen daughter and she's living in high school and she's getting these messages already. We already know that STEM is still something that girls are kind of looked over on. We know that, again, the sports are separated, everything like that. So how do we as parents start empowering our girls to see their worth? Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (05:42) That's a great question. And that's sort of my whole book. So let's unpack it. You know, I think the most important thing to remember is that we're playing the long game here. We can't just say, you know, the culture's broken, you're not broken. Right. But we we want them to understand that many of the messages that they're getting are informing their choices. Dr. Cam (06:08) Good! Let's go! Read to us your book! Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (06:34) For instance, clothing. I know a lot of people are really interested when their kids are becoming teenagers about their wearing crop tops and showing a lot of cleavage and wearing heels before parents are ready for the kids to wear heels and all of that. And so we're trying to help them understand, we're between wanting them to make their own choices, feel good in their own bodies, embrace their budding sexuality, or at least be unashamed of it. But seeing themselves through a system that values them, that values women packaged for a marketplace of male desire leaves little room for pimples and tummy rolls. So we're trying to help them understand that As I once said to my daughter, a crop top or a cigar is just a cigar, but a crop top Brazilian wax and something else is, you know, not as free choice as it seems. And so over time, we're trying to help them see that the culture doesn't always respect women, that the culture values their their appearance and their sexuality over all of their other characteristics and that we're not going to let that happen and that we want them to see, we want them to make their own choices, we understand that feeling good in their body is really important and that nobody should be able to take that away from them. But at times it makes them unsafe, it makes them a target, and it makes them focus more on their bodies than on other things in their life that are important. Dr. Cam (08:34) Now, Dr. Drew, I want to unpack this a little bit because I think this is something that I, as a mom of a daughter, I've struggled with a lot because even in that, when our kids want to wear whatever is popular, right? And it is. They like to wear these cute little crop tops and they want to wear these things. we're like, you can't wear those because those sexualize you. But that's sexist right there because who are they sexualizing them to men? So we now have to change the way we dress to accommodate What men may think of us rather than to dress the way we feel comfortable and confident in that upsets me The focus is more on you can't wear something that might tempt some guy rather than teaching our men Not to treat women like that like women have to protect themselves rather than teaching men not to mistreat women. Why is that? You can tell I'm passionate about that. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (09:38) Well, yeah, I mean, and I am too, and I'm glad to hear that in your voice because it's really not fair. And I think what we want parents, first of all, to understand is that people in everything or women in everything from bikinis to burkas are harassed or assaulted. So there's no research that shows that there is an association between what you wear and being assaulted. But we do want kids to understand that they may be treated differently. They may be seen as not as smart. And so we, you know, I think we can say to them exactly what you just said. It's not fair. You should not be responsible for anybody else's reactions to you. And I want you to know that you might be. And so they're making the choices of how they dress from an informed place. And you know, by the way, most of the kids, until at least their later teens, what kids tell me all the time is, I'm not dressing for guys. And they're really not, right? They're dressing for their peers. They're dressing because that's the trend. This is what teen brands are selling. And they wanna fit in. Dr. Cam (10:58) They feel empowered when they wear this outfit. They feel empowered. And I think them being able to show who they are and feel empowered is so important. So I'm curious from your perspective, is it more important to say you shouldn't wear that because this might be how people see you or you should wear that because you feel empowered? Here's how to handle it when people treat you poorly. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (11:29) I mean, I think it's really, you I don't like to tell people how to parent, but I, I, yes, we could forbid them to wear clothes they like and that help them fit in, but that does little for our relationship with them, Right, and it makes it us against, you know, rather than make it us against the culture, it makes it us against them. And the fight. Dr. Cam (11:45) or for their confidence. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (11:56) over autonomy in general and clothing in particular, it just harms too many parent relationships. you know, my mantra is to educate, not control. And again, the long game over time, we want them to understand that the world is trying to package them in a certain way. And we want them to tune into what makes them feel good, what makes them comfortable. And so what makes them comfortable in the beginning is fitting in, right? And so, you know, if, so if they're gonna wear that, you know, and you normally don't want it, like as they're walking out the door, if you say something, you will shame them and they will be conscious of their body. So it's like, we want to be having these conversations in advance and like throughout the book I talk about all of the ways we can have conversations with our kids that are more abstract, that don't target them, that help them think in critical ways. And so yeah, you might say, I wouldn't tie it to the clothes, but I would say just being a girl, you might be walking to the store, you might be walking to a friend's house and you might get catcalled. Or how do you feel when you get catcalled, you know, depending on the age of the kid. And you start a conversation about things that you can do, right? And there are ways we, there are often the safest thing to do is to just have them walk on, to ignore it. Sometimes that can escalate it because they want a reaction. So maybe you nod, but of course, a lot of kids and a lot of women, right? After the fact, they're like, I wish I had said this. I wish I had said that. And so you might give them three things that they can have up their sleeve if they deem it to be safe enough, like the guy's on the third floor and your ride is pulling up, then you can say, you know, is that the way you talk to your mom? Whatever it is, there's a variety of ways that I outline in the book that they can respond to a cat caller or to somebody who's making them feel bad about just existing. Dr. Cam (13:59) I'm thinking as we're talking about this, go, we right now are falling into the sexism, gender bias trap because we went right to appearance when we're talking about women. We did. We're women. We went right there. So how do we help our kids, our girls see themselves as far more valuable than their appearance and help them because right now when we protect our girls from so much, we're just continuing the sexism because we're protecting them from what's out there rather than helping them and helping them break through it. Right? So how do we empower our girls to see themselves for the value that they are, which is not this surface level appearance, which the world leads us to believe is our only value. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (15:13) Right. And one of the reasons we went right there is because globally speaking, girls believe their most important asset is their appearance. Right. They're seeing it all over television. So, you know, one of the things is starting from when they're very young, we just don't comment on their appearance. And I know it's very natural to do that, A, because it's so ingrained in us. Dr. Cam (15:21) Of course, because that's what they've grown up to learn. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (15:41) be because they just are so cute to us, right? And so we want to say, you're so beautiful. But, know, always be body neutral. Don't focus on their body as much as possible. When you do focus on their body, make it about what their bodies can do, how they function, not how they look, right? You can start with your own body. my gosh, you have a dog that loves to be chased. Like I'm so lucky that I have these really strong legs that allow me to chase Rover, you know? What can your body do? And then as they get older, because we're talking about adolescents now, right, you're focusing on their character, their effort that they make, things that they weren't born with necessarily, or that they can apply in a mirror. Let's say there are times we can tell our kids they're beautiful, right? I mean, you don't want to like suppress it all of the time. There are times when. Well, you know what the thing is, it does. Dr. Cam (17:17) Yeah, because then they think they're ugly. If you're never told that they're beautiful, they'll go right to, must be ugly. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (17:26) Well, the thing is the rest of the world is doing that for us. They're always commenting on their cute outfit and their cute nose. And so I think parents really don't have to fill in that much in that area. But what they can do, like if they've just had a big belly laugh with their daughter and they say, you are so beautiful, or they've just had this like incredible discussion about climate change and they say, you are so beautiful, then she knows you mean all of her. And when they're balled up in tears and they're saying, I'm ugly, of course it's our natural instinct to say, what are you talking about? You are so beautiful. But that just sort of emphasizes that pretty is important. And we don't want to do that. And they don't believe us anyway, because if they think they're ugly, they're getting the message from their peers. They're getting messages from social media that they don't fit some standard. And so really we want to talk to them about there's these crazy standards out there. Dr. Cam (18:08) Correct. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (18:26) and you may fit them or you may not fit them, but that's not what's important. What's important is that you, you know, and it's like, of course you want to fit in, you want to be beautiful. I personally think you're incredibly beautiful, but that's something you have to come to know on your own, right? Because they're just, they're not going to believe us if we just say you're beautiful. They don't. Dr. Cam (18:47) So what are some skills that we want to help our girls develop that sometimes gets overlooked with girls to help empower them to be that, to be a strong human being, to be a confident human being and to self advocate. That's a big one. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (19:06) That's a big one. Yeah, I think one of the things that I talk about in the book is that girls don't grow up with a healthy sense of entitlement, right? When we think of the word entitlement, we usually think of it pejoratively, like it's somebody who's too demanding. But girls are actually not demanding enough. And that, Dr. Kam, starts in third grade. Really, there's research that shows by third grade girls stop asking for as much as boys, especially when they're negotiating with a man, right? So in one, they're negotiating for their favorite stickers and they can ask for anything they want, but they ask for two fewer than boys do. And here's the kicker, this reflects the gender gap in negotiation that we see in adulthood, right? So yes, we want, there's all kinds of fit all kinds of ways that we can that we are teaching them not to do that. And there are all kinds of ways that we can like I like to call it our and our parenting replace or recognize and replace. And so one of the things we can do is make sure you brought up advocating, right? Make sure that they're advocating for themselves. When they go out for dinner at the restaurant when they're at the vet. if they have a question, right? And you're working up to, from the time they're little, with them being able to speak out loud and hear their own voices. The other thing we do is we teach them to be likable more than we teach them to have the need for respect. Another thing, they don't feel entitled to money. Right? Why? Because we don't talk to girls about money as much as we talk to boys. We actually don't pay them as much for chores, research shows. We don't save as much for college. I know. And one more thing is voice, right? Which is also what you're getting at with advocating is why don't we, why don't they feel as entitled to have a voice because we interrupt them. Men and women interrupt women more, right? And so if you live, if you have a daughter and there are men in the house, statistically speaking, she is being interrupted more than her brother. And so we can say, hey, wait a minute, I noticed you were being interrupted or, you know, just sort of alert brother when he's dominating the conversation and you can teach her it's okay to speak up. You will be interrupted in life. That is sometimes what happens. And we need to help you speak up because your voice is really important and what you have to say is very meaningful. Dr. Cam (22:10) I think that is so key because when we're raising kids, when we're raising girls, as parents, we have to make sure we listen to their voice too. I think we shut them down, especially if they sound like they're whining or they're sad, we shut down their sadness. We definitely shut down anger. One thing I've noticed is that girls struggle to express anger. It goes into tears. I know personally that's what I do because anger wasn't allowed for girls. so giving them freedom to be angry and express that anger right there, I think is so empowering. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (22:48) Yes, I'm so glad you said that because, you know, good is the gold standard for girls in a way it isn't for boys and anger is not good. Right. And so I actually had a mom contact me after she read the book. Recently, she emailed me and said, I just read your book. And my God, I realized that I was shutting down my daughter's anger and strong opinions more than my sons, even though my son is more critical, even though my son has stronger opinions. And so what she did is she went to her daughter and said, I think this is what's happening. And I don't know why it's happening. I think maybe, you know, girls aren't supposed to have strong opinions. I know that girls with strong opinions often get shut down. So I'm having this like internalized sexist reaction. And her daughter started to cry from the recognition because she knew something was off. She would complain mom didn't listen to her, but it wasn't quite that. And so there was this real reparative moment where her mom could say, I'm doing this. And then, you know, it opens up space for the daughter to say, hey, mom, I think this is happening rather if it happens again, rather than it turn into this big fight, you never listen and stomp out of the room. And so, yeah, when one of the ways that I outline is tolerating girls' tolerating their anger, right? Which doesn't mean tolerating rudeness, but it does mean knowing that you get uncomfortable with their anger. Dr. Cam (24:19) It's so important because women need to know that they can say no. I think women get raised to be people pleasers because they get in less trouble when they just comply. I don't see men apologize for every little thing as much as I see women apologizing for like everything. I think women learn to make themselves small so they don't get in the way of other people. How do we teach our girls to take up space? Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (24:59) I'm writing a sub-staff newsletter right now about modesty, because when we hear the word modesty, we sort of think of it as like so last century with like the long dresses and the high collars. Right. And but really there are all these other ways that we're teaching behavioral modesty, right? So that we and that's all part of being good, right? We ask girls to downplay their accomplishments so that they don't seem conceited. We ask them to, you know, for like the gentle handshakes and the soft-spokenness, like they're rewarded for that because it's so feminine, right? And so there's, we expect this demureness from them and that infiltrates everything. And so when they do speak up or when they do have something they want to say or do, they apologize first. Like, I'm so sorry that I want this or I'm so sorry that I need this, right? Dr. Cam (26:10) It's hard. I, I noticed even with me, I will giggle after I say something that is either controversial or anything like that, just to, and I hate when I do that because I don't want to do it, but I, it's so instinctual to soften whatever I just said, to kind of, it is, it is my apology. It's my way apologizing for saying something that I don't need to apologize for. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (26:27) I wrote a book about sexism and I still find myself people pleasing. And it's like it's it's because, you know, it's something that right from the time kids are little, we are rewarding girls for their cooperation and their collaboration and with boys. We don't teach that as much, right? And they actually come to see, like when we expect that from boys, it can start to seem emasculating. And, you know, so we, all the time we say, girls can be anything boys can be. Because like you were saying in the beginning, we value the masculine over the feminine, right? We value baseball over fashion. We value, you know, understanding finance over understanding intimacy, right? Right. And we talk to, and we talk, look, we use many more emotion-focused words with girls as infants than we do with boys. And with boys, we use more achievement-related language like proud, win, best. But of course, those are things, you know, being able to be, to own your sense of competitiveness and also being able to be emotional are important for everybody. So why are we doing this really binary thing? Because it's unconscious, because it's so much of what we learn, because we are magnifying these very small differences that we see in infants when they're born, right? But normally, but you know, research shows if you don't actually play into those differences, they disappear. Dr. Cam (28:03) How do we teach our girls to recognize these microaggressions against women? How do we teach them to recognize those and how to stand up for themselves in a way that, I mean, this isn't about being suddenly nasty or rude because that completely feeds into the stereotype too, right? Don't become a Karen. So how do we teach our girls to be assertive in situations where they feel like they're being mistreated. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (29:01) In the book, I tell the story about how I first introduced sexism to my daughter, right? And in the book, I call it a sexism detector. We want it to be sort of like a smoke detector that it only goes off when it's actually needed. But because it can be hard, it can be really hard to tell if something's sexist, right? Because often it's so invisible or it's very subtle. In the past, it used to be much more, maybe it was more obvious. And it's more subtle today because we have movements like Me Too and because we have books like Sexism and Sensibility. So a lot of it is sort of going underground, but just because it's more subtle does not make it less damaging. So I was much more hesitant with my daughter to talk about sexism than with my son because I didn't want to make her feel inferior. I didn't want her to feel like a target, right? So basically what happened is we were watching MasterChef Jr. as a family and the first season she was like, the girl's gonna win. I think the girl's gonna win. I really want the girl to win. And you know, the girl didn't win. And then this went on for several seasons and like we were watching reruns so like we could sort of plow through it. And each season I could see like her hope diminish. And eventually I was like, what am I doing? There's so many obvious signs of sexism, obvious to me, but not to little her. So I started to say, you know what? There's something going on here and the girl's not winning in part, I think, because all the judges are men. And they're probably not doing it on purpose, but they're identifying with the boys. And so I picked out things like, do you see how they say to the boy, my God, this is an amazing dish, I can't wait to visit your restaurant when you get older. And to the girls, they would say, wow, this is an amazing dish. Is this a fluke or could you do it again? Right. And then you wonder why every woman that walks in my office has imposter syndrome. So basically over time, we're teaching them, we're pointing out an everyday life because the world gives us endless teachable moments. Right. We're saying, wow, did you notice that the waiter did not make eye contact with me until he realized that I was paying and going to be giving the test. You're saying they often think that the man is gonna pay and so they're not nice to the woman or they're making these assumptions. And that's something that you're gonna experience in your life from time to time and I just want you to be aware of it. Right? And we can talk about it when it happens. Because if you bring it into the home and you say that you know that gender bias and sexism exists and it's not okay, but it's not about them, it's about the culture. here we are, we're trying to fix the culture and it is getting better over time. You always wanna balance the darkness with hope. Dr. Cam (32:18) Right. Here's the challenge though, too, that I see is when you are a girl or a woman and you point out things like that, that feel biased rather than people, men often, even women, self-correcting, they turn it around as you're being too sensitive or I've been left out of meetings because it's like, well, we can't be ourselves if there's a woman there, because now we can't be ourselves, which means what? Right? Now we have to be careful that we're not sexist. So that is a challenge too, because you might get left out of the circle or you might get kind of labeled if you make a big deal out of being treated unequally. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (32:51) Part of it is every child is different and some kids are going to feel more comfortable standing up for themselves and some aren't. Right. So the big thing that I want to get across to all girls is it's not them. Right. They do not need fixing. The culture needs fixing. Right. But that they are. So we're trying to intervene before they really internalize all of this stuff. And that hopefully over time, as it becomes more acceptable in the culture, and it already is, they will feel comfortable standing up. And if they can, if they can be, if they can employ bystander intervention, which just means speaking up when it happens to somebody else, then when it happens to them, they are more likely not to think this was my fault. This was something I asked for. This was something I did wrong. I shouldn't have said that to him. I shouldn't have looked at him like this. I shouldn't have gone home with him, right? So the more we can talk about it, the more they'll feel like they can stand up for it. But we also want them to, we wanna give them permission to walk away when they feel like they can't stand up for themselves, when they feel like it's dangerous. Right? We just want them to know, like that's what I started to say before. If we bring it into the home, they'll even if they can't say anything there or they don't feel comfortable saying anything there, they can always come home and talk to us because we've already let them know. We know this exists. You did not ask for this. This is not your responsibility to fix, but I want to hear about it. Dr. Cam (35:02) It's basically protecting them from being gaslit. Right? Do you think that's part of it? And there I just giggled. It's part of, so it's protecting them from, and what you're saying is it's, so they're not internalizing it. They're not as impacted when people say something by taking it personally. They can separate and say, that person is having issues with me being a woman. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (35:07) Essentially. Essentially. Dr. Cam (35:32) It has nothing to do with me being a woman. It has nothing to do with me personally. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (35:34) Right, like in the book, right, and you're right, like a lot of, it happens so often that we really can't react to every little thing, right? So we're giving them the tools to just sort of swiftly decode what's happening in the moment. But you know, I interviewed a group of eighth graders for the book and they were like, it's fine. I mean, I don't like when he snaps my bra strap, but it's fine. Dr. Cam (35:44) No, it's too right. That's crazy. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (36:03) And the thing is, what we're trying to have girls understand is like, yes, there are times you have to brush it off and I want you to know it's not fine because over time, research shows that this affects your self-esteem and your sense of potential. It places so much focus on your body that you can't focus on other things. Dr. Cam (36:26) Yeah, that's really important to keep that message going. I think too, and everything you've been saying, I haven't gotten the gist of that, but making sure this isn't about blame either. This isn't about men are bad, men are evil, men are, this is not about that at all. I think it's just pointing out that this is the way that we've all been raised to believe and that it's going to take time to change that belief that it's not the intent isn't sometimes it is, but the intent isn't to be sexist more than it is just completely unaware. Do you feel like that's fair to say? Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (37:10) You mean among boys and men? Yeah, I think right. I think actually this sort of patriarchal culture that our kids are growing up in, it hurts boys as much as it hurts girls. And what I've come to understand being in private practice for so long and talk and, know, I have many boys and men that are patients too, that we need to change the culture, not just because it will help our daughters. but because it will help our sons too, right? So what we're doing is we're cutting off half of their humanity, right? If you can't express your, if you're a woman or a girl, you know, an adolescent and you can't express your autonomy and your competitiveness and your authority, that's cutting off an important part of who you are. And if you're a boy and you can't express your emotionality and your wish for connection and cooperation, that's cutting off half your humanity. And so I want this as much for boys as I do for girls. Dr. Cam (38:19) Let's go there real quick because I think we mentioned at the very beginning, there's, it's put on the women to make change, right? And we end up adapting ourselves to fit into a man's world. How do we raise sons that are less or aren't sexist? Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (38:45) That's a really good question and I do have a whole section in the book on that. You know, I think for one, especially when you're a teenage boy, girls have a lot of power over you. And so often the Me Too movement doesn't make sense to them. They feel like they're being blamed. And so the really important thing that we wanna do is explain sexism to them help them understand it as much as we're helping our girls understand it because they don't understand the history. They don't understand the focus on girls' appearance. They don't understand. They really don't get how vigilant a girl has to be every moment of her life out in the world. And I think the more they come to understand that, the more empathy they'll have for her and for girls in general. And another thing I would say is For their whole growing up experience, don't separate boys and girls. As much as possible, keep these cross-gender friendships going. Dr. Cam (39:49) Yeah, you're right. There's so much separation. And then we don't understand one another and we don't learn from one another. And it does create this very just polarizing women, men. And I've been seeing this too, is that the container of what it is to be a man and a woman, I feel are so restraining that no one actually fits into that container. which then creates a whole nother level of insecurity because I don't fit that perfect container that is completely unrealistic, which means where do I fit? Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (40:23) Yes. And the container for women is their bodies, right? Like their bodies have to be shrunk and fit this certain standard. And for boys, it's really their masculinity, right? There's this constant nagging feeling that they're not boy enough. Even the most boy boys feel that way. And it's really sad. And with my son, in terms of like your question of what do you do, I've taken the long view. Like he might not be able now to stand up to his friends and be like, that's so sexist, right? But if I'm pointing it out, if I overhear things that they're saying, I'm, you know, there's a story in the book, right? About a friend of mine who called me and she had overheard her friend, she had overheard her son who was a new freshmen, just making friends, had them over to the house and they were saying words like ho and thought, right? That whatever, that ho over there and she didn't say anything because she didn't want to be the one who sort of single-handedly shamed them and got in the way of him making friends. And so she called me and she was like, my God, what am I going to do? Like, I feel like I missed the moment. And I was like, you did not miss the moment at all. This is just perfect food for fodder. And so she went and she talked to him about what she had overheard and he was like, mom, it's just a joke. And you know, even the girls laugh at it. And she was like, yeah, I'm sure they do because they've been conditioned to, but there's no reason that we should laugh at girls' sexuality and elevate boys' sexuality. And I was like, boom, right? And so that was just a lesson in passing. She didn't harp on it. It was just something she could say. And over time, hopefully this message sinks into that boy and he starts to be able to think that way as well. Dr. Cam (42:08) I love that. the takeaway I'm getting is it's really in modeling how we are as mothers and just showing our power, talking to our girls and boys equally and focusing on both sides of who they are. And I want to ask you, what is your big takeaway that you want parents to walk away with? Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (42:52) that's a great question. I want parents to know that sexism and gender bias affect girls much more than you think. But if you understand how to approach it, you can reduce the negative effects of it. Dr. Cam (43:16) Great. That is wonderful. So Dr. Jo, tell us more about your book and how people can find you. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (43:23) Yes, so the book is called Sexism and Sensibility, Raising Empowered Resilient Girls in the Modern World. You can find it wherever books are sold. It's also an audiobook that I narrate and it is you can find me at JoanneFengelstein.com or I have a newsletter that's JoanneFengelstein.substack.com called The Feminist Parent and I'm on Instagram at joannfingelstein.phd and on TikTok at the same handle. Dr. Cam (44:00) All of them. That's great. And I love that you played off of a Jane Austen book because Jane Austen writes some really powerful women. So that's a great play. Love it. All right. Thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate you. Jo-Ann Finkelstein, PhD (44:08) She sure does.Thank you, Dr. Cam, it's been fun. ABOUT THE SHOW The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast delivers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help parents strengthen their relationship with their teens. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior, communication, or self-esteem issues, this podcast offers actionable solutions to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. #empoweringgirls #genderbias #raisingstronggirls #parentingtips…

Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

1
Is My Teen a Monster? Understanding & De-Escalating Intense Emotions 43:46

vor 18 weeks43:46

43:46

Dr. Cam sits down with Leslie Cohen-Rubery, a clinical social worker, to tackle one of the toughest challenges parents face—handling teens with intense emotions. If you’ve ever felt like your child’s outbursts are out of control or completely illogical, this episode is for you. Leslie shares insights on emotional regulation, validation, and how to de-escalate heated moments. They also discuss why parents shouldn't try to "fix" their teen’s feelings and how reflection and repair after conflicts can strengthen your relationship. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE Why your teen’s emotions aren’t as irrational as they seem The biological and social factors behind emotional outbursts How validation can calm a crisis and improve communication The power of witnessing emotions without rushing to fix them How to repair after a conflict and strengthen your connection 5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Your child's intense emotions aren’t a reflection of your parenting. Feeling guilt or shame doesn’t help—understanding does. Validation is a game-changer. Acknowledging your teen’s emotions without judgment helps them feel heard. Your teen's brain is still developing. Their reactions may feel extreme, but there’s often a biological and social reason behind them. Don’t rush to fix their emotions. Sometimes, just sitting with them in their discomfort is the best support. Conflict can lead to growth. Post-conflict discussions should focus on solutions, not blame, to strengthen your relationship. 🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Love this episode? Share it with other parents, leave a review, and help more families navigate the teen years with confidence. Your support means the world! 🙏💫 🔔 Hit Follow so you never miss a solution-packed episode! EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 Understanding the 'Monster' in Our Teens 04:06 The Roots of Intense Emotions 09:45 Navigating Emotional Turbulence 14:00 Effective Strategies for De-escalation 20:01 Post-Conflict Reflection and Repair 30:09 Building a Strong Parent-Child Connection CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Leslie Cohen-Rubery Facebook: @lesliecohenrubury Instagram: @lesliecohenrubury YouTube: @lesliecohenrubury TikTok: @lesliecohenrubury CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell THE FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:01.902) Hey parents, if your teen is prone to outbursts or dramatic reactions, this episode is for you. Joining us today is the insightful Leslie Cohen-Ruberry, a licensed clinical social worker with 39 years of experience supporting families. Leslie is the creator of the podcast, Is My Child a Monster? Where she helps parents navigate the often rocky waters of parenting. In this episode, Leslie is going to share some effective strategies for addressing our teens' monstrous emotions. Welcome, Leslie. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (00:35.759) Well, hello, thank you Dr. Cam for having me today. Dr. Cam (00:39.264) Absolutely, let's start with, I always like to start with the backstory. How did you come up with the title and the idea of, is my child a monster? Leslie Cohen-Rubury (00:48.987) Well, it's very real. And that's actually a piece of advice I might talk about later when we talk about how to be with our kids. It's about being real. So parents would come to me and in that very first session, they'd sit down and they'd say, is my child a monster? Like they really were upset and it upset them to ask that question. They felt guilty, they felt shame. Sometimes it was even more extreme. Is my child sociopathic? And I'm like, my heart broke. And I said, no. And that is what I say every time I have not met a monster, every time a parent comes into me and says, is my child a monster? So it was very real. I heard it over and over again. And then when I thought about doing a podcast, said, I can't do anything but that title because you know, it's so powerful. And what it is, it's no, your child is not a monster, but they may be misunderstood. And that's the whole premise behind the podcast. That's where it came from. And that's what therapy is about. some parents don't feel like their child's a monster, but many, many parents worry about their child and they don't understand their child. So it includes really all parents, not just the ones who think their child's a monster. Dr. Cam (02:01.482) I love that and I think that is this ongoing fear that parents have saying, my gosh, did I mess my kid up? Is there something wrong with my kid? Is this normal? What are some of the behaviors you see the parents group into the term monster? Leslie Cohen-Rubury (02:08.15) Well, the biggest one is what you sort of announced in the introduction, which is these big, intense emotions. Like a child having, one of my episodes is where the child is having a meltdown because the parent threw away or lost their acorn. And so from a parent's mind is you've got to be kidding me. You're having a meltdown over an acorn where there's literally thousands outside, we can go get another. So parents would, it's that's very typical. So intense emotions, like you wanted to go see that movie, why can't, why are you having a meltdown before we go in? These are all examples from, you know, podcast is like, parents get confused over, it feels like illogical, intense reactions and intense behaviors. So throwing things. You know, withdrawing, won't talk, won't, you know, anything like that. When we get to teenagers, the behaviors get a little more scary and so do the emotions. So we're talking about teens who may be self-harming, may be extreme in their language to the parent. These power struggles get very intense. So it's usually intense behaviors or intense emotion. Dr. Cam (03:39.212) First of all, parents, if your kids are acting this way and you have this fear, which I know a lot of you do, take a deep breath. We're going to talk about it and there is an explanation behind it. And when there's an explanation, there are solutions. So let's start first with some explanation. Where are these big overreactions over something seemingly ridiculously small? Where are they coming from? Leslie Cohen-Rubury (04:06.883) Well, that's a long answer, but the short answer is your child is in emotion mind. And much of the skills that I'm going to talk about today come from dialectic behavior therapy. I am an intensively trained dialectic behavior therapist. and these skills are incredible for regulating emotions and disray and, also behavior. So dial the first thing is we want to recognize when our child is in emotion mind, because in that moment. When the child is feeling that they are an emotion mind, which is an illogical, intense, often hot, heavy, you know, kind of experience. For the question that's a little bit larger context of where is this coming from, we have both a biological makeup and an environmental or social component, which is, you know, who your child is when they're born. And that part, we don't change. That part, we need to accept that this is who they are. We're not fixing their biological makeup. So some children are born highly, highly sensitive. They feel things intensely, whether they notice someone crying three blocks away or, you know, at the other end of the room or in the classroom or something like that. They take on, they feel other people's emotions. get, they may get overwhelmed by stimulation, by just being in a crowded place, why are they hesitating to go to a birthday party that they really wanna go to or go visit their friend. And so there's the biological piece that parents often wanna change, but we really need to remember acceptance is one of the more important strategies to actually teach and use. And then there's of course the social environment. If your child, if you have one of these sensitive children and you're trying to get out of the house with your teenager and you're screaming at them, come on, I gave you 15 minutes, let's go, let's go. And you just like, there's nothing in your mind that says, why is this kid not getting out of the house? It's time to go to school. They're always late. When you get that kind of frustration and then you convey that because we're all human and it is frustrating. So when the parent is feeling that kind of frustration, they may be conveying to the child unintentionally, you are bad, what is wrong with you? How come you can't do this? Or even if there's not that there may be a few siblings in the house and that child is the only one that's struggling. you know, everybody else is out the door catching the bus, whatever, they're there, they're doing it, they're struggling. And so they may think that they are a monster. They may think that they are bad. And that's the environment which is what does the fit look like between the environment and who this person is? Dr. Cam (07:01.342) And Leslie, I think it's really important to point out that when we start reacting to our kids this way and they start responding this way, we start actually defining who they are and how they see themselves. And so when we act like they're a monster, we start feeding into them becoming and believing they're a monster, which just makes it worse. So I, right. So I think. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (07:27.865) And it's behaviorism. It's reinforcing exactly what they see. Dr. Cam (07:31.028) It is exactly what we're trying to stop. And I think a lot of parents do because they're trying to say, I'm pointing out what's wrong with you, so you'll fix it. And the problem is that's not how it works. Because if they could fix it, they would have. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (07:48.943) Right? No one wants to be feeling this way. No one wants to show up like that. I mean, no, I was the one in my family having those tantrums. there's, you know, it's not you. And yeah, it's not like we wanted to be that way. And that's what parents forget that. They forget. Yeah. When I gave the title, didn't realize, I'm just, I'm healing those childhood wounds because I was that monster child, even though I didn't call myself a monster. I just said I was bad. Dr. Cam (07:58.072) Ditto.That was a pain in the butt. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (08:17.549) And bad is a feeling of shame and shame is very, very toxic. It's very often. It is an unjustified feeling that I labeled myself because the world didn't get me. I had my learning disabilities. had these intense emotions. was highly intense behaviors and highly sensitive and you know, no fault, but nobody really got me. And that's what the podcast is about. And that's what we're doing here today is to help parents understand who your child is. Dr. Cam (08:50.114) Yeah. So the first step is realizing they're not doing this on purpose. They're not doing it to make your life miserable. And us getting upset does not hurry them. It slows them down more. So a lot of times we get this anxiety and we just get louder and more and more and we got to go, we got to go. And when we do this, we're actually slowing the process down. So Leslie Cohen-Rubury (09:16.559) Right. Well, I think there's a lot of pressure on parents and I write the pressure to not have this moment, to teach your child. Like if I don't do this now, what will my child be like? And a lot of our fear is driven by future oriented pressure. Like I have to teach my child. Well, I fire many parents from that job. I actually say, can I fire you because I have another job for you. And that other job is to see your child for who they are and give them that information. Well, I noticed getting out of the house is really hard for you. So it's observing and describing. Those are two mindfulness skills that we teach in DBT. Those observe and describe what you see. Give your child that information. That is the most important job as a parent is to give your child the information about who they are. and how they show up in the world. Wow, I noticed, yeah, go ahead. Dr. Cam (10:17.312) And, no, I just wanted to add to that. When you said that, there was no adjectives put into it or subjective thoughts to it. Like you're lazy and you're this or you're, it is just the facts of you are not getting out on time. No, nothing else. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (10:37.039) Yeah. And here's the thing. I'm a very intense person myself. So when my child was having their big reactions or whatever, I needed to calm myself down because I was the one. So when we notice a name, I am now working very hard to actually stay in my wise mind so that I don't get absorbed into their wise mind, into their emotion mind at the moment. So when I say, well, I noticed you're having a big reaction. I noticed that you're yelling at me. I noticed that you actually said you hate school. It's real, it's in the moment, and it often helps both the child and the parent sort of like wake up and say, yeah, that's what's happening right now. And then you can figure out what the next step is. So observing and describe is a very important skill to actually help us deal with those big emotions. Dr. Cam (11:35.246) I love that because it not only gives them the language, it also gives you the language and resets your expectation of what's going on and changes. Because when we have a story which we create about what's going on and we respond out of that story, which 9 times out of 10, probably 9.9 times out of 10 is wrong, we're responding in a very ineffective way. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (11:57.243) And what you just said I want to reinforce, which is parent and children need to learn these skills, especially teens. And I, every year I run what's called a multifamily DBT group. And a multifamily group means you have a parent or two parents or caregivers and the team in the group. And most teens come and say, I don't want my parent in the group. I said, watch out, they're going to get more out of it than you are. And the parents who join the group actually get their eyes open up there, you know, and for the team, they're thrilled to see their parent learning something. They are actually and I know they're taking stuff away too. you know, everybody's taking these skills away when we're in the group together, but the teens love to see their parents learning it. So the idea that you are learning the same thing and the same language of these three states of mind, I'm in emotion mind, you're in emotion mind, I need to take a moment to get myself into wise mind. You know, that's the difference between emotions in the back of your brain and the prefrontal cortex where you can problem solve. You can't problem solve when you're in a state of emotion and that's a mistake parents often try to do is when their child is screaming, let's solve this problem. That is not the moment to solve, no. Dr. Cam (13:14.168) going to happen. Yeah, that's when we just take the phone out of anger and then it's not accomplishing or teaching or doing anything at that point. We're just making it mad. So I think let's let's talk. So now parents are probably on the edge of the seat going, OK, now tell us then what do we do if we can't yell and we've got to stay? We're going to try to stay calm. We need to know what to do. And I think it's a real challenge with teenagers because they are not open to our suggestions at this point. So please tell us, what do we do when we're in that moment and what are some things first and then what are some things we can do to prevent us from getting in that moment, which is way easier than trying to get out of the moment. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (14:00.796) Absolutely. There is an ABC or an ARC kind of, we can do things beforehand, we can do things during, and we can do things after. in the moment, we'll go back later to what we can do beforehand, but in the moment, one of the most, you know, so we started off by saying, become aware that you or your child is in emotion mind. And then I sort of asked myself a question, whose problem is this? If the child came to me upset, it's their problem. Why am I going to get in there and make it my problem? So I have a metaphor that's a little bit graphic. And if anyone is very queasy, please turn down your volume. But the idea that if your child was throwing up because they had a stomach bug, you would want to go and help them, but you would not say you can throw up on me. That would be ridiculous because once they throw up on you, now you no longer can be help. You have to go shower yourself. You have to change your clothes. You got to clean up. It's like, and you're disgusted. So you're not helpful anymore. But if you hand them a bucket, you can, because you realize they're sick. I need to help them. But you keep yourself that one step removed and you hand them a bucket. Now you can be helpful. So the metaphor says, ask yourself, whose problem is this If it's their problem, I have to be able to witness, and this is the hard part, I have to be able to witness my child being uncomfortable. And parents, I see a lot of parents having difficulty with that. They are really, really uncomfortable. They don't want their child to be uncomfortable from a very young age. So they're trying to smooth the road. Well, when you get to a teenager and you can't smooth the road anymore, then you get it. you know, like hit it like a slap in the face. It's awful because you can't fix it in the moment. And they are going to be, you know, they're going to feel these intense emotions of feeling left out or not good enough with their peers or at home or whatever it is. And so parents have to witness the pain that their child is in. And so you need your own system of support and grounding yourself and just remembering that it is their problem. And the way we fix it or the way we help them is to actually respect them to say they can handle their problem. Even if you think they can't, still say that to yourself. I have faith that my child can handle their problem. And I know everybody wants it in the immediate. Right now I want my child to handle their problem. I want it to go away, but… It's a much more open your hands and be willing to accept the discomfort of the moment that's gonna be there until it passes and it will pass. Dr. Cam (16:55.374) So what do we do in the meantime? Because doing nothing is probably the hardest thing for parents to do. We want to do, we want to fix. Do we just stand there and let them act out? What if they're acting out violently or yelling or what do we do? Leslie Cohen-Rubury (17:15.909) So the one way to deescalate, one of the most effective ways to deescalate or to actually just with just a very effective skill is using validation. Validation acknowledges what is going on, what is happening, what your child is feeling, thinking, how their behavior, validation does not mean agreement. So if I validate my child who is yelling at me, it doesn't mean I okay it. It doesn't mean I'm saying it's okay. I can validate you are so angry that you think the only thing you could do right now is to scream at me. So when we validate what is going on for our child, it can begin to deescalate it because I'm not adding fuel to the fire. And validation is simply stating what you see, sort of a little bit of that observe and describe, but it's that what I said about being real. It's letting your child know. So some parents will say to a teenager, I see that you're, you know, see that you're really, it sounds like you're really angry. Okay. And they get even angrier. Right. Sometimes it works and it brings them down goes, yes, I'm so angry. I, know, I'm really, really angry. And other times they just get angrier. So if validation works, it's going to deescalate the situation. If validation doesn't work, because by the way, validation is in the eye of the beholder. So the person who's receiving it. Yeah. The person receiving the validation has to feel is validating. Dr. Cam (18:50.381) That's a good point. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (18:56.613) So if they get louder and they get more upset, I would say very quickly, wow, what I just said felt more invalidating, even if I'm trying to validate you. So then I would, then that's when I go, they just want, know, hey, this situation sucks. This situation is really miserable. They don't want me to tell them how they're feeling. They want me to be on their side and just say, and I don't have, again, I don't have to agree with them. This really stinks. We are so quick to try to fix everything. Slow down and just see where your child is. Just slow down and be in the pain with them. And we don't wanna do that because we think we're gonna make it worse. I think I use a clip for, didn't even see the movie, but I use a clip from Inside Out one, part one, where, or the first one, where there's a very good example of actually being there and naming the sadness or naming the pain or naming the anger actually reduces it, it doesn't increase it. Dr. Cam (20:01.41) Yeah, I think what's hard is when we see kids especially swearing at us and saying things like that. think it triggers us to say, a second, I as a parent should not be talked to this way. This is not okay. I think we're not saying that that is okay. We're saying that's not the moment that you're going to make any change. If you try to teach and correct and fix that language and say that's not okay and get upset with how they're exhibiting their anger in that moment, you're just gonna get more of it. So this is something we're in the moment. We're not going to teach, we're not going to folks fix, we're going to validate and we're gonna deescalate. That is our only job, right? Leslie Cohen-Rubury (20:49.893) Right. Right. And that is a a winning plan. That is parents think I'm not letting them get the best of me. I'm not going to let them do that. Well, then you actually enter the power struggle. They baited you and you got baited. And so I say to parents, kids are really good at baiting us. They know how to supposedly push our buttons by the way we don't have buttons, but kids know what to say. Not because the manipulative, by the way, I do not look at teenagers and manipulative. I look at kids as doing the best they can with the skills they have. And in that moment, they need you to understand that. And if they're upset and then they get you upset, well, they got you to understand they're upset. So can you do that by again, stepping away and giving them a little space because giving them a little space and saying, I'm here. I see that you are in emotion mind. see that you're yelling at me and you're trying to communicate to me, you know, go below the surface. When they're yelling at you, don't stay up on the surface and get caught in the, that's where you get baited. Go below the surface and say, wow, if you're yelling at me this way, you must be in a lot of pain. You must be feeling so horrible that you can yell at me or you want me to know something. Hey, can you take a breath and let me know what you're trying to tell me? I, another thing that I say, I bait them. I really want to hear what you have to say. What you're doing right now doesn't work for me. I don't speak yelling language. I don't, I can't understand this. So I'm here. I want to hear what you have to say. It's very important. Can you find a different way to say it? I'll give you space. I'll give you time. Dr. Cam (22:37.922) Yeah. I think what's important, Leslie, is if we go and try this today and you've been in a mask and your go-to has been yelling and getting caught up into it, it's not gonna work beautifully for the first, second, third time because your kids are still expecting you to get upset. This is something that you have to do over time. So a lot of parents will go, well, I tried that once. It didn't work. I'm gonna go back to the yelling which has not worked hundreds of times. So I really want to encourage parents when you hear skills like this, they're not something that magically changes. It's something you have to be consistent at and you have to adapt and learn. But when we're always yelling and showing our kids we can't regulate our emotions, we're not going to be able to teach them to regulate theirs. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (23:32.591) Right, right. And one day your child's gonna turn to you if you use the language of emotion mind and don't overuse it, they will not like that. But when you use it, they will turn one day to you and say, mom, you're in emotion mind. And you will not like hearing that, but they're right. Right, they know it. Dr. Cam (23:51.938) Yeah. yeah, my teen has told me, we don't use emotion mind, but my teen has definitely pointed that out too. And it's important because we both need, when you get in that emotional state, you kind of lose your smart mind, right? A little bit. So it's good to kind of have that touchstone. Okay. So we're calming and we're deescalating by really not adding is what our goal is. What do we do afterwards when our kids have been completely rude and nasty and said stuff that we are not okay with? How do we address that now without starting it up again? Leslie Cohen-Rubury (24:32.471) Okay, so at that point afterwards, sometimes, you know, there's three approaches, you let it go. There are some families where they have to process everything, you know, and it's and the children are exhausted because and that's why they don't want to talk to you because everything needs to be processed. So a small percentage of it is let it go. It's over. Okay. Well, I'm not gonna let my child get away with it. You think they let you know my child who was had such difficulty and had big emotions, she still feels shame at 34 years old for the way she treated her family, you know, and been apologizing to that. And they don't forget. So if you let it go, it's only because every once in a while it's okay to let some things go. On the other hand, there is a good amount of time where I want to sit down and say, hey, can we look at what happened? Now, most of the time, when people wanna look at what happens, it's like for further punishment, as opposed to, or blame. You said this and I, know, and so instead if we adopt a perspective, and this is what we do in DBT again, is we say, hey, let's look what happened so we can figure out what we can do different next time. And it's called looking for synthesis and solutions for changing behavior. So I would, and this is what I would do way in advance is, hey, I'm gonna do something new. Instead of when things don't feel good or you behave in a way or I behave in a way that we're not happy with, I would like to come back, take a short little five minute, that time makes them feel like you're not gonna lecture them for two hours. I'd like to go over for five minutes just what happened, what can we do different? Not what happened so we can blame not what what happened so we can judge but what what happened so we can look at doing something different. Okay. Dr. Cam (26:36.302) Yeah, that's so important because I think often we approach it as what can you do differently next time? What should you do differently next time when the dynamic required both of us? Leslie Cohen-Rubury (26:50.745) Right. So you might now I've started with my started young with my grandchildren. I did with my kids, but I didn't know all this as much with my kids who are 37, 34, 34. So I'm doing it with my grandchildren where, you know, big, intense emotions, highly sensitive kids, and they're listening. But if you already have a team who you haven't had the opportunity to do some of this with, It's probably best to start with yourself. So if you sit down and say, I'd like to go over what I could do different, that did not feel good to me. Even if your child was the one with big emotions, they feel safer coming to you and listening, hey, I just want to share with you what I'd like to do different. You might have a suggestion for me. I might have a suggestion and let you know what I'm going to try different. Next time that happens, I'm going to say, I'm getting an emotion mind, I'll be back. I'm gonna go calm myself down and I'll be back and I'm gonna come back to deal with you. Then they learn that you're dealing with your emotion, which is setting a fantastic example for them. So that would be something you could do initially is to share what you would do different. And absolutely, if they're open to it, I would say, do you wanna go over anything that you might do different? And then finally is sometimes we need our children or ourselves to make a repair because damage was done. You said hurtful things. I said hurtful things and there are consequences. We're not ignoring those consequences. You have to, you know, I can understand why you might have said hurtful things. You were really in pain and now there are consequences. We still need a repair. So what does that repair look like? And I talked to my child with respect about hey, how do you want to how do you want to do a repair? We can sit here and do a little work about what we'd want to do next time. That's a repair. We could say that you want to take on one of my chores. I water my plants every Saturday morning. Maybe you want to take on one of my chores and water my plants for me. That's a repair. So we can we can offer something. And I think when we come generously to our children and invite them into the conversation and treat them with respect, then we more likely will get cooperation. I know not all kids will give that cooperation because they're angry and they're very hurt and they're very angry and they've got that wallet. They don't feel like they can willingly participate. And sometimes with those kids, it does take time. You need to create a connection so that they will feel like they're more willing to do something. We have to turn from conflict to collaboration. And so sometimes this goes into the before. Sometimes we need to do things when things are fine and work on building the sense of collaboration, building a sense of connection, because then the repair can go so much smoother. And if you have such trouble with the during and after, then it may be that you need to look at before I'm disconnected from my child. And that's what most of these ruptures are about. They're like letting you know that there's no connection. So a lot of it is about prevention, is setting it up. So we reduce the number of, the amount of conflict. Dr. Cam (30:25.068) I think that's the most important piece that if you're constantly in conflict with your teen, it is not an issue with your teen. It is an issue with your relationship with your teen. So when we get upset and punish our teen for their part of a broken relationship, what is that telling them to? And we're not taking ownership or accountability for our part of it. And I see this a lot in my practice and teens are like, if my parents can't do anything or change anything and they want me to do all the change. No way. I'm not going to do that. That's crazy. Like they're the ones that need to change because they're mean to me and they say nasty things to me and they don't get me and they don't listen to me and I just have to fight for everything. And they're like, they're, they don't feel heard. And so when we take the time and I think the hardest is when our kids are being ugly to us, this makes it even harder for us to take a step back and try to connect with them because we are so resentful and angry at them. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (31:34.96) It's, know, again, I really want to say to parents as you hear this, we're not blaming you because I look, look at, you know, being a parent is extremely challenging. It is going to bring up our own areas that of wounds and weaknesses that we need to work on. Just a very simple example is one of my daughters was extremely literal. Well, my brain doesn't work that way. When I say I'll be home in five minutes, you better give me plus or minus 10 minutes. But she said, you know, if I came home at six minutes, she said, mom, you said you were going to be home in five minutes ago, you know, in five minutes. And so I'm like, that would drive me nuts. And I'm like, okay, that's about the fit. So we do want to remember that there's no judgment. I'm not right. And she's wrong or she's not wrong. And I'm right. You know, it's, it's not about right and wrong. It's about the fit and you know, my older son, I was a go, go, go. I love being out. I love being on the go. I love doing things. He was a homebody. He didn't want to go all the time. I missed that. did, you know, in truth, the child that's intense and letting you know that they're upset, that's the one that's going to be okay. They know how to express themselves. It's the quiet one that he went along and he was a people pleaser. He took care of me by saying, I'll go, I'll go. But I missed the fit and I missed the fact that he wasn't, he was a teenager who I was pushing and he was an easy going kid and, but, and he was a people pleaser. So he didn't give me a hard time, but my heart breaks because I miss understanding that piece of him. you said children need to be heard and understood. That's the point of my podcast. We need to hear and understand them. And all the examples that I give in the podcast are all about that. That's what we're working on with children. We're working on the fit. And the other thing, when it's up to us to start changing, it was so hard for me to bite my tongue and not say what I wanted to say. So parents, I'm with you. I know how satisfying it is. I love intense emotions. I love yelling. I came from a family where yelling was okay. You know, it was all fun. I married someone who does not, there was no yelling in his family right, from his background and upbringing, there was no yelling. So we had to get used to that, that I had to bite my tongue. I had to hold the horses back and I had to really resist what my urges, my urges were like, I wanna yell at her. And I did a skill in DBT called opposite action. She doesn't deserve to be shamed and you should be better, you should do this. She was highly sensitive and so I worked very, very hard letting her have her moment thinking she's right. I did. I let her think she was right a lot of the time growing up because I knew my truth. It wasn't a power struggle for me to believe myself. It's just I wanted to correct her. And that's where I would get in trouble. And that's where parents are getting in trouble. We think we have to fix our children now. Remember they have a lifetime for figuring out that they're not always right. Dr. Cam (34:57.258) No, and I think the more important thing at this point is not fixing them and making them perfect, which they will never be. It is fixing our relationship with them so that we have, so they have that foundation of trust and respect and safety with us. Even when they go off into the real world, they're still coming home and they still want to be around us. I think that is the most important and we are sacrificing that very important piece that we need to help them thrive by trying to fix them and argue with them and yelling at them and doing things that actually undermine everything that we need to be doing as a parent. And I want to go to when you were saying this is not about blame. I think it's not about blame. think what was important for us as parents to realize is that parenting is a very crucial skill set that has to be learned and it has to be practiced. It's not our fault that no one teaches us this, but if we know that that's out there, it is up to us to go learn how to do it and be the best parent, because we don't want to wing it and just leave our kids while being up to chance. That's scary to me. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (36:09.403) Right, right, exactly, exactly. And you were just talking about something I wanted to go back to. What was that? When our child is, if we don't get them, and it's very hard for a parent who is struggling because their child is not making the changes they want them to make, I often say connect to your child in another way, like, I, there was a period of time when my daughter was pretty depressed and wouldn't listen to the skills, by the way, growing up, whenever I gave her a skill, she would often respond to me that stupid, that doesn't work. Okay. Right. What I, and parents keep, they nag and they keep saying, you have to use the skill, you have to use the skill. What I recommend is imagine that you're planting a seed because seeds take time to germinate. Dr. Cam (36:50.668) Yes, that happens all the time with teenagers. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (37:06.267) And it may take 10 years before you actually see that seed germinate and come up. But I promise you parents, and my daughter called me up at 22 years old from Thailand where she was working at the time and said, mom, you have to tell the parents and the kids those skills really work. So she was the one who was telling me that it was stupid, it was stupid, it was stupid. And I didn't really know it was gonna work because this is the first time I was a parent, right? And I would say the skill and leave it. Your children hear everything you say. So don't keep going. Believe that what you say is getting in there and that it's short and sweet and you have more chances of being successful at that point. And as I said, connect to your child in other ways. So if you can't help them regulate their emotions, connect to them in whatever way you can at the moment. If it's that they like to be wrapped up in a blanket and sit in their room all day. Talk about the blanket. Is this your favorite? What's your favorite blanket? know, like don't and actually be real and share with them real life things. Like, you know, one, you can actually get kids to deescalate not, you know, because you and someone else in the family may be talking about something really important or something really interesting and they stop having, you know, they deescalate in order to hear what you're talking about. So be real and show them that there's life outside of this big emotion. And that not everything has to be focused on their emotions and their behavior, like broaden their perspective and see them in a greater context, because there's a lot happening. Right? They may get really angry because there's injustice in the world. Great. Talk about that. And let them teach you maybe you don't know about what you know. So. Your kids have these, have these sparks and it's our job also to see that because sometimes all we see is what they're not doing and all of that. But if you go back and you remember your three year old who used to take apart all their toys or take apart the vacuum or take apart the, you know, whatever, go back to that. Think about some of the skills and things that you saw when they were little and try to connect to those parts. Dr. Cam (39:29.782) Yeah, love that. So Leslie, what is one big action item you want parents to be able to walk away with from this episode? Leslie Cohen-Rubury (39:42.731) I was going to say planting the seeds, but I already said that. so the idea that you offer your child a skill, an idea, a teachable moment, but then you let it go. So offer it, whatever you have to offer your child, put it out as if it's a buffet and let them choose and let them pick it up and decide when it's right for them to learn that skill, to use that skill, and then try teaching that skill to yourself and modeling it. Dr. Cam (40:18.254) I was gonna say it's even more impactful if they see you doing it rather than telling them to do it and then you don't do it yourself. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (40:23.789) Absolutely. There is so much work that even with my adult children now, they are comfortable enough giving me feedback. And the reason why they're comfortable enough for it, because I had to learn not to be defensive. And parents who get feedback from their kids is, mom, you always tell everybody whatever I tell you. You know, you, I try to tell you something and then you go blab it to your sisters or you go tell everybody else. To hear that is painful. but to be able to say, what's the message, not how are they delivering it. They may not be skillful in delivering it. So my one takeaway is take the feedback and actually allow yourself to be open and willing because then through the rest of their life, they will continue to come and talk to you. And my kids continue to give me feedback. I welcome it. It still has that little sting to it, but it allows us to be so connected. And I think that's what parents want. They want that relationship as their children grow. Remember, teenage years are gonna pass. So what's gonna continue is your relationship with them. so, yeah, try to do that. Try to be open and willing to hear the feedback so that you can model the changes. Dr. Cam (41:45.078) I think the number one thing kids tell me why they get angry at their parents is because their parents don't listen. So that's a, and that's the number one reason parents get mad at their teens, because they're not listening. No one's listening. Yeah, so we got to start. We got to start the action. So Leslie. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (41:57.141) Exactly. Is that no one's listening. Exactly. And validation is the key to listening. It proves that you're listening. So that just takes us back to the beginning where we said validation is so important. Dr. Cam (42:11.618) That's exactly right. It always comes back to that. Always comes back to that. Leslie, thank you so much for joining us. How do people find you? Leslie Cohen-Rubury (42:20.431) So my name is Leslie Cohen-Rubery, R-U-B-U-R-Y, and that's my website that has lots of resources. You can find my socials through my name, Leslie Cohen-Ruberry. And then Is My Child a Monster is either on my website or anywhere where you find podcasts. by all means, I encourage people to listen to get many, many more skills in how to help you understand your child. Bye. Dr. Cam (42:47.95) I will put all the links in the show notes so you guys can find that. Leslie, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate your insight. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (42:50.351) Beautiful. Leslie Cohen-Rubury (42:55.727) Thank you and thanks for what you're doing where these resources are wonderful for parents. ABOUT THE SHOW The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast delivers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help parents strengthen their relationship with their teens. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior, communication, or emotional regulation, this podcast offers actionable solutions to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. #parentingteens #emotionalintelligence #teenmentalhealth #parentingtips…

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