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Edge of the Couch

Jordan Pickell and Alison McCleary

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Two good friends and experienced therapists explore the topics that were either shied away from or dismissed because they were too big, too nuanced, too risky, or too uncomfortable to address in school or even in supervision. We want to inspire and encourage new therapists to think more deeply, show up more fully, and find humour and self-compassion in navigating the messier parts of being a therapist.
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The Numinous Podcast

Carmen Spagnola

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The Numinous Podcast is a show about intuition, spirituality and the mystery of life. The host, Carmen Spagnola, is an intersectional witch and clinical hypnotherapist who has smart, soulful conversations with interesting people. The lineup is diverse, the topics are eclectic, and the people are down-to-earth (mostly).
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Jordan Pickell is a Vancouver, BC-based a trauma counsellor. Issues centred in her work include boundary setting, making friends and building community, and the impacts of trauma, violence and oppression. She's our hype woman today for building better boundaries with our parents. I happened to see on Instagram that Jordan is once again offering her…
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In this essay I will show how Thomas Aquinas, due to his early life attachment ruptures and abandonment wound, and under the influence of the violent toxic masculinity of the Inquisition and Aristotle's writings, became a 23 year old incel who went on to drive an 800 year wedge between intuition and the mind for people of European descent. Enjoy! M…
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Happy 49th birthday to me! Here's my gift to you: This is the first episode of a personal retreat podcast miniseries! Half of the episodes help you prepare for the season of the witch, the other half offer a guided day of ritual, trancework, self-care, and divination for 2025. It's a party at your own pace! A party for introverts! We're all doing s…
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Did you know that matrescence – the process of becoming a mother – takes approximately 2-3 years? It's far from the 3, 6, or 12 month process we've been made to believe. In fact, 20 years after giving birth to my child, I'm still grappling with how it changed me, how I want to mother, and what this identity means to me. My guest for this episode is…
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How can we support clients in navigating the big life decisions, including to stay or leave relationships, choose career paths, or family planning? In this episode, we explore the therapeutic role of discernment. Often, people are grappling with the pros and cons of each choice. Some of these conversations are vital and productive, and other times,…
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Content note: This episode discusses suicide and abuse. Are therapists crisis workers? We believe that the role of the therapist and the role of the crisis worker are distinct, yet, in certain situations, we can still find ourselves pulled into that role. In this episode, we break down the crucial differences between emergencies, crises, and genera…
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Did you hear the phrase “follow the client” in graduate school and wonder what it really means in practice? In this episode, we dive into the nuances of this concept, exploring how therapists balance the art of staying present with the client’s story while holding the bigger picture in mind. We talk about how goals in therapy can shift over time an…
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Have you heard the phrase 'The worst person you know has a therapist encouraging and validating their behaviour'? In this episode, we tackle a tricky line in therapy-- when compassion tips into complicity in a client's harmful, toxic, or otherwise unkind behaviour. We talk about the skill and risk involved in calling clients in when they’re not act…
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In this special episode, we watch and react to our first recording together, before Edge of the Couch, an unpublished episode of a podcast that would never be: 'Reel Therapy Talk' where we would talk about pop culture from the perspective of therapists. On April 6, 2020, we recorded our first and only episode. Love is Blind was having a cultural mo…
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Welcome back to the second of this teensy tiny Tarot miniseries. Remember, we're continuing our Tarot journey in The Numinous Network throughout the fall and into the new year. Join us for this deep dive! All classes are recorded and archived with no time limit for viewing. 📣 Click here to leave feedback for this or any other episode. 📣 Learn more …
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This is actually an excerpt from a now-retired course I used to have called Intro to Tarot. You'll get all the backstory of that in this episode, but the main content here is about the history of the Tarot going all the way back to a syncretic figure called "Hermes Trismegistus" who was not a singular person but rather a collective of writing by po…
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In this special episode, Bhupie Dulay and Abby Chow come on the podcast to talk about how we can rather than rely on the reductionist approach to working with clients with marginalized identities, radically reimagine what relationality looks like in relationships inside and outside the therapy room. We talk about what it means to practice hope, how…
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In this episode, we talk about the roller coaster of emotions that come with getting "dumped" by clients. We discuss the different ways clients can terminate therapy, how each one hits us differently, and the common mistakes we make that might lead to their departure. We talk about mistakes that we make that have lead to clients terminating. We als…
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Do all therapists engage in dream work, or is it more of a niche practice? We discuss what might hold newer therapists back from exploring their clients' dreams and share how we integrate dream work into our own practices. Plus, we open up about our experiences in an informal projective dream group and how it has shaped our approach as therapists. …
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Sometimes clients will come right out and tell you what they are feeling frustrated, annoyed, or concerned about. Sometimes clients may have a harder time communicating “negative” things and their frustrations may come out in passive aggressive ways. But what do we do when clients are communicating passive aggressively? Do we let the little remakes…
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In this episode, we dive into a recent trend of clients secretly or openly recording their therapy sessions. We discuss how it might feel as a therapist to discover you're being recorded and wrestle with the ethical implications surrounding this practice. We discuss the different motivations behind recording—whether it’s for memory retention, accou…
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In this episode, we dive into who is responsible for creating a sense of continuity in therapy-- the client or the therapist. We discuss the role of homework, strategic note-taking, and what you might say at the beginning or end of sessions to keep the flow going. How do you ensure each session builds on the last? Share your thoughts with us!…
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After receiving 4 (FOUR!!!!) emails asking about an erotic transference episode, we finally had a chance to discuss the topic. Erotic transference happens in a lot of therapeutic relationships and some theoretical orientations lean in to its exploration (think psychoanalysis), but many of us were not given any guidance about what to do when it come…
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In this episode, we explore what might be happening with clients when there is silence. Sometimes it's an awkward silence, sometimes they are contemplating what to say next or they are dissociated, and sometimes they are waiting for us to take the reigns. We share our perspectives on sitting in the silence versus breaking it, and talk about the dif…
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What do you do when a client describes a traumatic experience, but then proceeds to shrug it off? In this episode, we explore what might be going on when clients dismiss what we gather are traumatic experiences. We discuss possible reasons behind this phenomenon, including denial, dissociation, or simply seeing it as common and therefore, normal an…
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Now, we don’t believe that clients can be “too emotional” but many clients come to therapy with narratives around emotion that may make them feel that they are being too much when they are emotional in session - crying is a weakness, anger is a bad emotion, I’m a cry baby, stoicism is best etc. As clinicians we have to sit with the full spectrum of…
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This week, we talk about therapist enmeshment - what it is, how it happens, and what therapists can do to ensure they have appropriate boundaries with clients. For this conversation, we’re placing the context at the feet of the therapists and exploring how some therapy practices and some therapists encourage emotional enmeshment with clients. We ta…
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We're in between seasons right now, but we feel it is long overdue to talk about Palestine and what therapists are wrestling with when it comes to speaking up about genocide in session and in public. We are taught "do no harm" but at what point is our silence more harmful than speaking out? As always, we ask for openness and curiosity as we engage …
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My guest today is Clinical Counsellor, relationship therapist, and fat activist, Dawn Serra. Dawn offers trauma-informed, weight-neutral, radical mental health care, particularly for those in larger and marginalized bodies. I super enjoyed this conversation about fatphobia, anti-Blackness, ableism, disability, perimenopause, Ozempic and cultivating…
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We're not afraid of grappling with the tough stuff here on The Numinous Podcast! In this episode we're engaging with high stakes violations of values and betrayals that lead to Moral Injury. Moral Injury can occur when you do or fail to do something, when you witness something, or when you hear about something after the fact, that violates your dee…
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This episode is going to be a very special one for all the listeners who live with chronic illness and all the listeners with Indigenous heritage. These stories and experiences are interwoven in my conversation today with Anishinaabe medicine woman, Asha Frost. Asha Frost (she/her) is a member of the Chippewas of Nawash First Nation. She’s a longti…
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Mental health professional and somatic coach, Aurelie Richards, is back on the show and we’re talking about secure attachment in movement work – community organizing, workplace unionizing. How can we do this in a way that's sensitive to the realities of interpersonal neurobiology? In a way that recognizes the value of presencing secure attachment i…
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Content note: Specific, sometimes graphic, discussion of death. Shawn Leonard is a Mi'kmaq psychic medium. Gifted and accurate, his television show on APTN called 'Spirit Talker' depicts him travelling to Indigenous communities across the country, learning about their culture and spiritual teachings, and connecting them with their Beloved Dead. Alo…
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If you're a 35 - 55 year old woman, you grew up in the very particular cultural landscape of the pre-#MeToo era. You grew up with boy-centered stories like The Outsiders, Stand By Me, Goonies and The Lost Boys, the everyday male violence and misogyny of entertainers like Andrew Dice Clay and Sam Kinison, and hypersexualized movies and music like Po…
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Content Note: This is a very honest and frank conversation about our topic – modern dating. You may want to listen to this one through headphones! We’ve got a really FUN episode ahead with Canada’s Dating Coach, Chantal Heide, who has some great advice for all the women who are trying, so far unsuccessfully, to date men. Honestly, I think this migh…
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When I tell you that a tarot book is one of the best antiracism workbooks I’ve ever come across, I hope you take note. I honestly think if anyone, whether an adept or a newer student of antiracism, were to pick up Tarot for the Hard Work, it would keep them busy with exercises and practices for the rest of their lives. And, not incidentally, forge …
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I am a huge fan of Wayne McCrory's book, The Wild Horses of the Chilcotin: Their History and Future. Wayne McCrory is a registered professional biologist specializing in the study of wild horses, bears and western toads. Wayne is a leading expert on bear conservation and human-bear conflict. He was a driving force in the creation of the Khutzeymate…
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