MMT50 - 231

Meeting Malkmus - a Pavement podcast

Today on the show Scott joins jD to talk all about song number 31, don't worry we get to his origin story too!

Transcript:

Track 1

[1:02] At track 32, we have the song, Grave Architecture. Come on in. Sorry.

I was trying to stick that in, yeah. Oh, damn. I stepped on it.

That's okay. I should have prepared you.

What are your initial thoughts of Grave Architecture? This was a funny one that

when you said it to me, I have a long,

like I think I said before, I think the album that I really kind of really felt

like really grabbed me was was wowie zowie and um and yeah this song is like

the come on in like right away like oh yeah,

hey this is westy from the rock and roll.

Track 3

[1:41] Band pavement and you're listening to the countdown,

hey it's jd here back for another episode of

our top 50 countdown for seminal indie rock

band pavement week over week

we're going to count down the 50 essential pavement tracks that you

selected with your very own top 20 ballots i

then tabulated the results using an abacus and an old pair of socks you know

the kind that have toes in them how will your favorite song fare in the ranking

you will need to tune in to find out so there's that this week i'm joined by

pavement Pavement superfan, Scott from North Dakota.

Track 3

[2:19] Scott, how are you doing, motherfucker? I'm doing well, and you, sir?

I am excellent. I'm always excellent when I get to talk Pavement with somebody. Absolutely.

Track 3

[2:29] So tell me a little bit about yourself. So, you know, grew up in Minnesota,

a small town, but not that far from the Twin Cities.

And it's small towns. You don't things come slowly.

And I was I don't want to say a late adopter to pavement, but I graduated in

1996 from high school and I was all about the grunge movement.

You know, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, all of that. And I didn't know much about indie

rock at all or any indie anything until I went to college.

I had heard of Pavement when I was in high school. I had friends who were into

them, but I was so set on grunge that it's like, this is what we're going to listen to.

And I kind of wrote them off at first without hearing them because I for whatever

reason, I was like, oh, Pavement.

It's like going to be heavy, more industrial, you know, maybe like East German

KMFDM or, you know, something really that I might not enjoy.

Yeah. And then I was completely wrong about that.

A friend, a friend had, I was just riding with a friend and he had,

it was right when Brighton the Corners came out and we were just riding in his

car and I was like, what is this?

And he's like, this is pavement. And I was like, no.

Track 3

[3:46] And I was like, this is not what Pavement sounds like. And it literally from

there was just a beeline to the store to pick up everything I could get my hands on.

And, you know, it was, it was, would have been my last, you know,

two years of college, give or take.

Track 3

[4:01] And it was obviously Pavement was up there. And then right at that same time,

Built to Spill, Modest Mouse, all these, you know, other indie bands.

But Pavement was the one that I was just like, oh my God, where has this been my whole life? Oh, yeah.

Track 3

[4:45] On the internet so you just had to go and buy and

see what happened and i picked up

terror twilight which divisive record you know for some people for me absolutely

loved it there's so much same stuff in there that was just jangly and interesting

and different and fun but also i mean,

It's hard to explain, but I remember growing up as a kid, and radio was all we had.

And every song was about love, and it was just straight up hitting you over the head with it.

And here was something that you had to go decipher these lyrics,

and you could decipher them in a thousand different ways.

And if you got sick of the lyrics, you could just go and listen to the music itself.

Track 3

[5:35] And that was just something that I had been looking for forever.

So that would have been roughly like 1998, 99.

And I was living in Minneapolis. I got an internship and I got to see them on that last tour.

So the first time- In 99? Yeah. I got to, I saw them.

I remember this too, because they played two dates and I only could go to one

because the other date I was seeing Slater Kinney.

They were like back to back nights. So I was an intern at the time.

So, you know, I was working during the day and then as much as I can,

I'd go to First Avenue where the show was.

And I remember very little because it was, again, 1999.

Track 3

[6:17] But I remember they opened with Here, which I thought was just such an odd opener

because it's just such a chill, just laid back, you know, didn't come out with a big punch.

And it just set the tone.

And i i remember um what i remember about that gig is steven or malchmus had

uh like uh christmas lights but they weren't around his microphone stand and

that was that was just about it for,

stage presence and again this is the first time i've seen this band uh when

i'd only seen pictures before that i actually when i looked at them i didn't

know who the singer was and i thought i I thought, uh, I thought Mark was the singer.

Cause he stands in the center. Yeah. I was like, oh yeah, that he's gotta be

the singer and nope. You get there and I'm like, oh, okay.

Track 3

[7:08] And you know, I, I remember, you know, buying after that, you know,

the, the major league EP or the single with, with the additional ones.

And, you know, I got very into them and then they went away and I was like,

oh, well, this sucks, you know?

And they never were far from my playlist.

They were always there. And...

Track 3

[7:35] It was the first band that I really remember going, oh, I won't get to see these guys again.

And that was frustrating because I had felt like I had only gotten into them

a year or a year and a half before.

And yes, could I have gotten to them earlier? Sure. If I had been born in a

bigger town with better radio, with better, you know, a college town,

maybe where that could have been a lot, a lot more easily found.

But, uh, you know, growing up in rural Minnesota, you got AM radio,

you got farm reports, and then you got pop radio.

So it was very difficult to find those, but yeah, that's, that's kind of my

beginning with the band and, uh, just becoming infatuated with them.

Track 3

[8:16] So question yeah um oh shit it slipped my mind oh no what was the question oh

the question was so did that lead you to sm solo work or psoi or anything like

that yeah uh i was and and that's,

what we'll get to that uh we'll get to i have some linkage there but that's

okay um yeah i i I immediately went out and followed the solo work,

which again, the first record just blew me away.

And I listened to it on just repeat forever.

And I would say at least with the solo stuff, the first four albums, I just ate up.

Um, and after that, it wasn't because I thought the music was any different.

It's more that I just got older and I was listening to less new music.

And that's something I've been. Weird how that happens. I hate it though.

You know, I, I, I'm finally, I finally figured out that if, you know,

and it took me till here that if you keep listening to new music,

if you make time for it, it comes right back the enjoyment,

you know, and I've tried to set aside and, you know, just shut the TV off and

listen to music for an hour and it's really helped.

Track 3

[9:30] I do that every morning, every morning I get up around five 30 and I listened

to at least one record, um, you know, or a playlist or whatnot.

And that sort of sets the tone for my day.

Yeah. See it. And I'm, uh, I'm an accountant and a teacher by, by trade.

So I teach at a local community college, but I do taxes on the side and this

is busiest time of year for me,

but I can can pour through you know

six seven albums in a sitting you

know just having the music on while i work and just

pound away and pound away and work work work work work and the

music will still just kind of seep in and upon you

know second or third listenings all of a sudden i'm going back and i'm like i

gotta hear this song particularly again because there's something in

there and that that's really helped but long story

longer uh yeah those solo records were and and

whether it was you know technically him or him with the jicks

and i saw him i don't know

a couple times on those tours when he would come through

minneapolis and again loved it loved it

absolutely loved it um yeah and you know he did it in store uh at the electric

fetus in minneapolis a pretty famous record store for minneapolis and uh i remember

being intimidated because that just the stuff you read oh he's he's He's aloof.

He's kind of standoffish, you know, but he's, he's very intelligent.

Track 3

[10:55] And he played, I don't know, three or four songs off whatever record that was.

And then you sign up and you shake hands.

And he talked to me for like five

minutes and he couldn't have been more gracious with everyone in line.

And I was like, Oh, this is, this is great. You know, they say,

don't meet your heroes. And I'm like, well, no, this was, this was fantastic.

This was a really nice situation so yeah i've only ever had good experiences

but i'm like you very nervous because he's just so goddamn cool you know like

that's like you can't you can't plan for that intangible right the coolness factor you know.

Track 3

[11:35] It's it's difficult to relate to especially for

me i'm cool and underqualified oh yeah i didn't and

i'm just like like grew up southern california

you know playing tennis and you know doing doing all these things and you know

but also with skateboarding and then you know he was in bands like still when

he was in high school and stuff and it's all these stuff that you know i had

kids like that in high school too but i felt the same way i'm like ah these

guys are cool and i mean i I took piano lessons forever,

but I never translated that into,

you know, thinking about, oh, you could be in a band or you could do something.

And it was just like, nope, it's piano.

It's nerdy. It's never going to work. And it's like, eh, you know.

Ben Volz would argue with you. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's very true.

So what's your go-to record at this point? Is it Brighton still?

Like, because that was your first or.

No. Obviously it changes over the years. Uh, for, for the longest, for the longest time.

It was crooked rain, crooked rain, just because it is a masterpiece.

Yeah. It, it, and again, just out the, out the gate, just how,

just how the shambling start of that record and then, you know,

the, the, the cowbell kicks in and just.

Track 3

[12:51] Yeah i still

get goosebumps from that and for a long time that was it and

my least favorite not least favorite but i thought

wowie zowie for the longest time was there's

so many weird songs on there like you take

you take a song like half a canyon which i adore but.

Track 3

[13:11] It is weird it is out there and he's

just you know screaming and it's kind of nonsense and

i find myself now going to wowie

zowie um because it is so i

mean just starting off with we dance

which is again just this kind of slow burning kind

of almost ballady at points yes and

then just the rest of that record with you know grave

architecture and pueblo and and grounded and

uh you know those are just the ones off the top of my

head but again uh at&t and

it's top to bottom and it's a little bit

longer record which i like as well

um yeah when you've only got five lps to

sort of satiate yourself now there's lots of eps

too but yes five main lps along is

nice right right right which again

just to i always have liked that in in uh i'm a modest mouse fan as well not

that you know we need to get into that but their first modest mouse's first

two albums were like both 74 minutes and wow this is also back yeah this is

also back when like a cd would cost 15 to 18 dollars and.

Track 3

[14:26] I didn't have a lot of money so you know

i would buy these records that had so much music on it

um when i could and i just appreciated that

but that longer album uh and it really ebbs

and flows as well which which i love and it can go

from just something that's really simple and straightforward forward to something

that other bands it might end

up as a b-side or on the cutting room floor because it is

that different but absolutely love that

record now that's that's my go-to yeah yeah it's

a good one and it harkens back to those original three eps with some of the

more you know minute and a half uh like noise art sort of um gems that are on

there which which again um,

You know, getting into watery domestic and all of that, you know,

like the first time I heard like forklift, I'm like, what is this?

And you compare that to, you know.

Track 3

[15:27] Anything off the later stuff and it's a weird transition but

you know a lot of bands do that uh you know

they're they start off you know either fast and punky or

weird or they don't know what they're doing and the songs are like

a minute and a half but you can still sense the structure

there you can sense that this could be you know building to

something and like a lot of those

first i don't go back to a ton of the

stuff prior to slanted i think because

of that because i didn't find out about a lot of

these i didn't have access to them you know you couldn't download

them most of it was out of print uh you'd be

lucky if you could find it in a second hand bin um and

if you did hooray you know uh really hunting for records and uh yeah i don't

those are the ones i don't revisit a ton but there are also so many gems in

there as well that i'm like you really need to do give that give that a better

chance it's nice that it's on vinyl now too yes the westing compilation is on

vinyl that's a treat absolutely yeah.

Track 3

[16:30] Because those eps are especially sight tracks is tough to get your hands on

yeah yeah and i i i don't i don't buy as much vinyl as i used to but i used

to have a big problem of going on to ebay and just any seven inch i could get

my hands on you know know,

um, like anything that I could really, really knock down.

And, you know, if it's a reasonable price, I bought it because why not?

And I've, I've, I've tapered that a little bit, but I have, I don't know if

I'm missing like at least a U S single.

I'm not sure. I can't, I can't remember. I haven't looked in a while,

but, um, I, I grabbed as many of those as I could, uh, just because I couldn't

get them anywhere else. Right. Right.

Track 3

[17:15] Yeah. Did you, did you go to any of the reunion shows like in 2010 or in 2022?

Yep. Uh, in 2010, um, they played at a terrible venue in Minneapolis called

the Roy Wilkins auditorium, which is, um, it's an auditorium that was built,

I don't know, in the twenties or thirties.

It's, it's just concrete. The sound is miserable.

Track 3

[17:38] Um, it has a huge main floor, which gives

you room to spread out which was fun and they

opened with cut your hair which i was

like yep perfect perfect you know just get it

let not get it out of the way but so tongue-in-cheek that i i just loved it

and i got to see them there and then i went to pitchfork fest that year as well

uh to see them so i got to see them to twice there where was the pitchfork fest

in chicago yep Yep. Yep. In Chicago.

And I'd been to that a couple of times. Well, I lived in Minneapolis and I had

my, uh, I was, I was seeing someone whose brother, uh, lived,

he was going to grad school down there.

So we had a free place to stay, which makes, oh, look, yeah,

Chicago is reasonable now. Yeah.

We can drive down, we can take the L and, uh, just have a great time.

And you know, it's a festival, so you're far away.

Track 3

[18:33] But I, you know, had my stupid little digital camera

i still have videos somewhere you know

of that but no wow well it

was one of those things where it's like this is a band that was so important

to me at when they were a band

like in a two three year period and like there's

still stuff i'm listening to it's still always going back

to it but now they're coming back and again it

was it was a thing i'd never thought would

happen so it's like that the pixies were never going to happen just like

the replacements were were never going to happen and those happened so

i was yeah ecstatic never yeah

exactly exactly so what do you think we get to track 31 uh give it a spin and

come back on the other side and talk about track number 31 sounds like a plan

all right we'll be right back hey this is bob mistandovich from pavement uh thanks for listening.

Track 1

[19:27] And now on with a countdown down. 31...

Track 3

[22:09] Well, there it is, track 31, Give It a Day, the first track from the Pacific

Trim EP, also available on the

Sorted Sentinels edition of the Wowie Zowie reissue. This is a great song.

Track 3

[22:49] At 31 give it a day what do

you think scott from north dakota this is

a gem and i

love it so much i love the whole ep because

again this would have been this would

have been something i did not discover until you know

well after i knew all of wowie zowie

all of right in the corners and it wasn't something

i easily could uh you know have

it and they they

said we're not going to waste this time so they came together and

i mean the whole the whole ep itself less than 10

minutes but it is so much fun

the entire time and give it

a day itself like i i don't

i love lyrics i love knowing the lyrics and i

don't often put too much thought into that but when you go read i mean about

the people that are in the song you know referencing uh increase mather and

and john John Cotton and Cotton Mather and the Puritans.

And it's like, it's almost like was somebody reading a book about the Puritans

and the Salem Witch Trials and these people. And we're like, you know what?

We can actually, I just read something about this. We can throw it together.

Track 3

[24:09] And it's just top to bottom, just lick after lick after lick and the poppiness

and the looseness of it. And yes, I mean. Total pop jam.

Track 3

[24:20] Total pop jam. I mean. and the melody is infectious

and it it's one

of those two where it clocks in i got wikipedia i'm

looking at here but it clocks in at 237 and i'll find myself listening to just

that song for like 10 15 minutes in a row because it's it's and and every time

you know whether it's the chorus whether it's the very beginning where the lyrics

start right away whether it's the the last the last line of the song,

what did you do to him to make him think.

Track 3

[24:51] Which again, it's, it's kind of like the, I think it's at the end of crooked

rain, crooked rain, or maybe it's the other one where it just kind of trails off.

It's like almost a sentence, but not. Yeah. And, and.

Track 3

[25:04] Top to bottom, just fun. And again, on that EP with followed up with Gangsters

and Pranksters, which another gem that's just very, very fun.

Track 3

[25:15] They were in a fun mood, weren't they? yeah and

and it does and this is this is the kind of

thing too where it does it it brings me to some

of his early solo work that

there's just fun songs in it

and these are fun songs it's not you know there's a certain way i feel when

i hear grounded or you know we dance that it's almost like this not solemn but

i'm not happy when i'm listening to it like if if grounded comes on at a certain time, it cripples me.

And this will never cripple me. This will always pick me up. And I love that in a song.

You can just put it on and be happy. Do you remember Nike used to have this

app that you could have on your phone and you could program a power song.

So if you were running and you got to the near end, you could click right to

your power song and it would drive you through the finish line.

My power song happens to be Walking on Sunshine by Katrina and the Waves. Wow, that's amazing.

Because it's so bouncy and so fun. But I could easily see it being Give It a

Day because it's also very bouncy and fun.

Now, obviously, the lyrics are darker, but the way he's singing them,

the cadence of the way he's singing them, like the phrasing is just sublime.

Track 3

[26:41] And again, like you said, there is a ton of dark, you know, connotations in

there that unless like, again, I went and looked up Wikipedia cause I was like,

I know these names and I think they have something to do with this.

And then I read about it and I'm like, oh yeah, this is a, this is a,

I mean, this is a dark part of American history.

And it's just like, no, it's just, just, you know, eyes and eyes and teeth to

teeth, but mine are rotten underneath.

It's like just the wordsmithing. ah yeah i love it yeah and the funny thing

is he probably some of it like melodically.

Track 3

[27:19] Came up with it on the fly you know like uh like in that in that session like

i don't know how many days they they recorded but i don't think it was many

i thought they said it was four okay i mean even to come up with anything and

one and they did again i learned this reading but they the the, uh,

no more Kings, which is on that schoolhouse rock record.

Oh, they did at the same time, I guess, which that was news to me.

So, um, but that's, I mean, that they got that much done in that little time.

And yes, there were only three of them, you know, uh, spiral and,

and Mark weren't there, which, which again, kind of leans me into his solo work a little bit.

Cause there are things that, you know, you look at Jenny and the S dog,

which is, you know, just a gem.

You know, it tells this story and same thing here.

We got this really light and poppy and just repetitive, like a song that you

can repeat really quickly and easily.

But if you dig into it, it's like, oh no.

Track 3

[28:22] So yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. 110%.

Is there anything else about the song that you want to discuss? Yes.

I think it's, I think it's interesting that there's only one chorus.

Yeah. It's, it's just in the middle and it's just, it's repeated and,

and how he does it and how he staggers that I've always loved,

you know, cause it's, it's like, it's all, it's each one is slightly different.

Yeah. And the last one just kind of fades out and it's like,

could we have added another section to that? And would that have added or taken away from the song?

Cause I, I, I'm not a huge short song person because I like,

I get to the end and I'm like, I got to hear that again. I got to hear it again.

Track 3

[29:11] But if you give me something that's 12 or 15 minutes, sometimes I can,

I can just kind of get lost in it.

Right you know certain things you know like old mogwai

and you know old old other stuff that is

a huge just really dense chunk

of material that i can't see trimming down but

if you added to this would it take away from it as well

i think i don't know but the one thing i can i

can venture a guess on is if it

had another 45 seconds this would be

like a single like a like i i don't know

if it would have been a smash hit single but to me it's got single

written all over it it's it's so catchy it's so

goddamn catchy yeah yeah and again

so that's this uh that you said this is 31 31 so is it properly rated in your

book or should it be higher rated should be lower rated it it's it's tough it

i always find that tough with with any band ranking them when you look at eps and you you know,

maybe split singles because it's, it's not an album release.

And this is, I mean, someone quoted that, Oh, it's right here.

It isn't much more of a, than a throwaway, but an extremely enjoyable one.

Track 3

[30:26] And yeah, I think, I think where it is, it's, I don't think it's overachieving.

I think it's really close.

I don't know if, I don't think it would make my top

20 just because i was so ingrained on

the lps for so long and i i mean i didn't

even have an actual copy of this until uh the

the expanded edition of wowie zowie came out um

i had heard it plenty of times but i never had owned a copy so i didn't have

the repetition with it like i did everything else so i think it's pretty close

i think for it to for it to be a two minute and 37 second song that is just

enjoyable front to back. No, all killer, no filler.

I think it's pretty close to where it should be. Nice.

Well, that's what I've got for you. I really want to thank you so much,

Scott, from North Dakota. Yeah. Do you have anything you want to plug at all? Not really.

Track 3

[31:22] I just did a music enjoyer that, you know, I'm so happy that these guys did

another reunion tour as well, which now that I had, well, I had time and a little

bit of money, so I got to see them three more times on this tour, which.

Oh, brilliant. Just, yeah, I got to see him in St. Paul and then I just went

to Chicago for two shows.

And again, what, what amazed me about those shows too, is the,

you know, the first tour they went through the set list, I guess, didn't move that much.

And about the only song I didn't get to hear that I wanted to three nights in

a row, they didn't play frontwards and I was dying to hear frontwards.

They played it the night before and the night after. character um but

night to night to night i think the

set switched because huge sets too

they're playing three and a half hours yeah and i think

the songs changed almost 50 percent night to night to night which if i'm gonna

do themself oh my god if i'm gonna go three nights in a row and i'm gonna get

you know sure i'm gonna get maybe cut your hair all three nights which is fine

it's not my favorite song but you know i got pueblo i got grounded twice i got uh folk jam which

i love folk jam just such a weird funky little song and i get the hex yes we

got the hex the fuck out of that right oh my god and that's that's the thing like i used to think.

Track 3

[32:45] Finn was my favorite closing song and going back and listening to the hex with

the guitar solos like i love finn because i love how it fades out and just keeps

fading and fading and i just keep

turning up the volume until it's absolutely gone.

And the hex is just this beast of a sprawling thing and just do,

do, do, do, do, do, do. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Love that. So, um, and the, the last night I.

Track 3

[33:16] I treated myself. Uh, I literally was orchestra pit front row center.

Oh, I was like, I, I'm a single guy.

I don't have anything, you know, outside of, you know, I don't,

I don't have kids or anything to spend money on except myself.

So I can be, be a little bit, uh, no, no, no, whatever, but absolutely worth it.

Uh, just being right up front and hope, hopefully whatever these guys keep doing,

they keep doing it. but they seem to be enjoying it.

They're obviously due for a break and to get back to, you know,

Preston school industry and Malcolm's solo stuff and whatever the other,

and, you know, and the Stanovich doing horse stuff.

Track 3

[33:57] You know, they, they have other interests, but that they've been able to do

this for now, you know, two years.

Yeah. That's fantastic. Dan, I couldn't be happier with it.

If I had, if I was a man of unlimited means, I'd be going to South America for

sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Yep.

I mean, luck, luckily for me, it happened during its, well, um,

it was in Chicago. And again, I teach, I get two personal days a year.

I used them both in September because of course I'm not going to miss pavement.

So for the rest of the year, I had no personal days. I'm fine with that.

Absolutely fine with that. No problem at all. You, you, you did,

you did well and you did well today too.

I really want to thank you so much. Yeah, this was awesome.

So take good care of yourself and make sure to wash your goddamn hands.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-content
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy